I AM The Way I AM . . .

Because I wouldn't want to be any other way!! 😀

Because I wouldn't want to be any other way!! 😀

Hi . derek

Could you be any other way? Do you have a choice to be any other way?

daz .

The way people are, is always the way that they have chosen to be.

I would usually ask someone - Why have you chosen to be the way you are? and how is that choice serving you?

Hi . derek

Could you be any other way? Do you have a choice to be any other way?

daz .

That's one of those philosophical questions and can be answered validly from both perspectives, depending on the level of detail/granularity at which you are interpreting the universe or the model/terminology you wish to use.

We could go with cause and effect and say that there is no choices because everything just IS and happens due to cause/effect.

We could also say that at every moment in time we can make a choice e.g. I can feel anger arising in me, but I can choose to let it take hold or choose to let it go and be happy.

All Love and Reiki Hugs

The way people are, is always the way that they have chosen to be.

I would usually ask someone - Why have you chosen to be the way you are? and how is that choice serving you?

I agree that there Is an element In that we have chosen certain experiences within life that can produce a particular mind set or pattern In a way that they can Influence to a degree how one behaves etc, but there has to be an element of choice to how we respond to experience . Similar to energyiz mentioning having a choice to be angry or choosing to let the anger go .

I think we would all agree that as Individuals we all function on different vibrations or levels of awareness so there are those that cannot see beyond the material world and In that respect may find themselves contained or restricted Into being, thinking, acting, feeling In a limited/certain way .

So perhaps In that moment when opportunity or a situation arises where they need to to respond with love or with fear, do they have a choice as to which way they will respond .

If an Individual Is lost within themselves and they are not expressing their true nature Is It any wonder people behave In the way they do?

Who’s responsible for how one behaves .

Does a child that’s fed a high concentration of sugary sweets have any control over how they behave .

I wonder how many yardsticks one can apply down the line as to how and why anyone behaves the way that they do . .Is It because of this or because of that .. lol .

I would say an Individual that Is being themselves can only be “one way” .

daz .

Hi Daz

I agree that there Is an element In that we have chosen certain experiences within life that can produce a particular mind set or pattern In a way that they can Influence to a degree how one behaves etc, but there has to be an element of choice to how we respond to experience . Similar to energyiz mentioning having a choice to be angry or choosing to let the anger go .

That is a misunderstanding, experiences do not give us a particular mind set, we are responsible for our own thought patterns and beliefs which create our core way of being.

think we would all agree that as Individuals we all function on different vibrations or levels of awareness so there are those that cannot see beyond the material world and In that respect may find themselves contained or restricted Into being, thinking, acting, feeling In a limited/certain way .

So perhaps In that moment when opportunity or a situation arises where they need to to respond with love or with fear, do they have a choice as to which way they will respond .

No we are all one, within that we can choose to embrace self in a positive and meaningful way, or we can choose to embrace self in a negative, self restricting way, this has nothing to do with our physical reality, this is to do with self perceptions.

People have a choice, choosing not to make a choice, is in itself a choice, choosing to go with the flow, is a choice, choosing to move against the flow is also a choice.

If an Individual Is lost within themselves and they are not expressing their true nature Is It any wonder people behave In the way they do?

If an individual decides to withdraw into them self, then that that is a choice, they will be expressing that choice all of the time.

Who’s responsible for how one behaves .
Everyone is only responsible for themselves.

Does a child that’s fed a high concentration of sugary sweets have any control over how they behave .

Yes, they can exercise self control if they choose too, the amount of self control can be influenced by the way they are educated and disciplined.

I wonder how many yardsticks one can apply down the line as to how and why anyone behaves the way that they do . .Is It because of this or because of that .. lol .

I would say an Individual that Is being themselves can only be “one way” .

Why do you feel that a yardstick is required, being judgemental is a very self limiting way of being.

People can choose to change self any time they wish to, we all do it all of the time. 😉

Hi . derek

Could you be any other way? Do you have a choice to be any other way?

daz .

Hi Daz!!

As an enlightened being in a universe of possibilities, I could be any way that I choose!

As Paul has said somewhere here, I am the way I am because that's what I have chosen - no one and nothing else is 'to blame', not even sugary drinks!!

Of course, being happy with the way that I am does not mean that I do not want to grow, develop, be 'better', more fulfilled and move forward to my full potential in life!

I am choosing that also!

I blame or credit nothing and no one for the way that I am. As I sit here typing this, I am the product of nearly 57 years worth of decisions. If I had made different decisions along the way, of course I'd be different now. But I didn't, so I'm not.

And today I can choose to be any way I like.

So today, Daz, I'm going to be Magnificence in Human Form! 🙂

Thanks for making me chuckle Derek! I think I'll join you today in being Magnificance in Human Form. x

Hi Daz
That is a misunderstanding, experiences do not give us a particular mind set, we are responsible for our own thought patterns and beliefs which create our core way of being.

Hi Paul .

So If 100 people joined a sect or a cult movement are you saying that the Influence of that experience wouldn’t produce a particular mind set to the majority of them . Would you say that out of 100 women that were raped or sexually abused that many did not enter a particular mind set because of that experience and In that experience could effect the way that they behave towards men from that day forward .

The experience of Self realization transcends the Individual from one mind set to another . Winning the lottery can change a persons financial worried mind set Into a contented and secure one . Many are brainwashed just by watching t.v. (loll) .

I would say an individual that Is In expression of unconditional love will not be effected by experience In the same way as those that are not . It’s all about detaching the Identity of the person from what Is experienced .

No we are all one, within that we can choose to embrace self in a positive and meaningful way, or we can choose to embrace self in a negative, self restricting way, this has nothing to do with our physical reality, this is to do with self perceptions.

People have a choice, choosing not to make a choice, is in itself a choice, choosing to go with the flow, is a choice, choosing to move against the flow is also a choice.

Whilst we are In experience of physicality there are natural laws In place . It’s like a game of chess the first move one makes In physical expression (free will) can determine the outcome of the game . During the game If your knights and the bishops are taken you have limited options (limited freewill) as to how you can carry on with the game this being the result of previous actions taken . Initially you do not choose to have your knights and bishops taken from you .

If we refer the game of chess to the game of life and If we have only a few chess pieces left we have limited choices . In the game of life we have limited choice regarding our experiences endured because of past actions . If we cause sufferings to another we experience sufferings, there’s no choice In that whilst we entertain the natural laws . Whilst that process Is in effect we are therefore limited from making certain choices .The choice that always remains Is how we deal with the experiences .
You mention self perceptions having nothing to do with physical reality, and yet physical reality Is the platform where separation and self identification of being a person Is rife . Only a handful of Individuals let go of or change their perceptions of self because the ordinary mind that saturates physical experience Is most difficult to release from . We go from perceiving that we are someone to something to nothing to everything because what we are enquires as to what It Is that we are as we reflect on all that resides from within the environment we find ourselves experiencing whether It be In physical or spirit form or a formless form .

Yes, they can exercise self control if they choose too, the amount of self control can be influenced by the way they are educated and disciplined .

And If the parent Is unaware or Is not educated as to how sugars can Influence their childs behaviour Is perhaps the child therefore held responsible for their parents unawareness . The child Is seduced by their senses of how good chocolate and cola tastes and Isn’t aware of anything other than . Is the child responsible for having a lack of nutritional knowledge .

Why do you feel that a yardstick is required, being judgemental is a very self limiting way of being.

I don’t feel that a yard stick Is required I am pointing out that there are many . People can and do relate to them and some live there lives by them .

daz .

Hi Daz!!
So today, Daz, I'm going to be Magnificence in Human Form! 🙂

Hi Derek .

ha ha Good for you .

If an Individual chooses today to realize what they are will It be so .

daz .

Hi Daz,
I think people get a bit confused about some of this. There are things we can do about who we currently are and who we would choose to be. In many cases if we chose not to activate changes to move us to where we 'think we want to be' it is because we choose not to, and if that is the case then that is where we need to be for a while. The problem is that many tie this up as if we can choose to be anything and anyone simply by choosing.
However there are many examples of things that we cannot choose.
We cannot choose how others will treat us, or view us, and their actions have a bearing on our existence. We can only choose how we treat or view ourselves and how we treat and view others.
We cannot choose to win the lottery, we cannot choose to be 6 inches taller, we cannot choose our parents. These and a million other examples affect how we live - who we are and what experiences have got us to this point in time. A child does not choose if a parent gives it sugary drinks - that is the nature of family power, and your height is the nature of genes and nutrition.
There are things though that we can choose, we can choose to heal and let go of past influences, we can choose to be happy and accept who we are and we can choose to change how we think about ourselves and others. This is all based on judgement - if you make a choice then you judge the possible outcomes and select one, what you need now you will choose, tomorrow your choice may be different - that is the nature of Now. Words like self-serving and self-limiting are just judgemental values, you will have what you need, whatever it is is serving you as you have chosen, it is what is needed now, if you accept it then you will be happy, if you fight against it then you will not and may choose something else when you are ready - this is the nature of change. There is nothing mystical about it.

You are not to blame for who you are though many would suggest you are, you are just who you are.
love
chris

Hi Daz,
I think people get a bit confused about some of this. There are things we can do about who we currently are and who we would choose to be. In many cases if we chose not to activate changes to move us to where we 'think we want to be' it is because we choose not to, and if that is the case then that is where we need to be for a while. The problem is that many tie this up as if we can choose to be anything and anyone simply by choosing.
However there are many examples of things that we cannot choose.
We cannot choose how others will treat us, or view us, and their actions have a bearing on our existence. We can only choose how we treat or view ourselves and how we treat and view others.
We cannot choose to win the lottery, we cannot choose to be 6 inches taller, we cannot choose our parents. These and a million other examples affect how we live - who we are and what experiences have got us to this point in time. A child does not choose if a parent gives it sugary drinks - that is the nature of family power, and your height is the nature of genes and nutrition.
There are things though that we can choose, we can choose to heal and let go of past influences, we can choose to be happy and accept who we are and we can choose to change how we think about ourselves and others. This is all based on judgement - if you make a choice then you judge the possible outcomes and select one, what you need now you will choose, tomorrow your choice may be different - that is the nature of Now. Words like self-serving and self-limiting are just judgemental values, you will have what you need, whatever it is is serving you as you have chosen, it is what is needed now, if you accept it then you will be happy, if you fight against it then you will not and may choose something else when you are ready - this is the nature of change. There is nothing mystical about it.

You are not to blame for who you are though many would suggest you are, you are just who you are.
love
chris

Hi Chris .

I suppose chris that the key here Is to know thyself . What we are conscious of doesn’t always contain the bigger picture . I mean who In their right mind would consciously choose to have a lifetime full of sufferings . Whilst the Individual Is caught up In sufferings and anger one may shout out to our lord and say why are you making my life hell? ha ha .

It happens because they are not aware perhaps of one’s choices made prior to their Incarnation . Although If one’s experiences to be had contain karmic ties then there Isn’t much of a chance of the Individual escaping the sufferings .

On some level In reference to your thoughts about not choosing to win the lottery or choosing one parents I would say If the parents or If winning the lottery Is an experience that Is suited to whats needed to be In experience of within physicality then that will be so . I knew of my mums experiences of Self and God realizations before I was born to her . In essence It could be debated that I chose to be born to her because of my own soul level requirements or It could be said that I had no choice because that was what I needed (end of story) ha ha .

You mentioned “The problem is that many tie this up as if we can choose to be anything and anyone simply by choosing”.

I agree . Some may say that In respect to one’s labours can they then and only then taste the fruits of their labours .

In other words you cannot realize what you are just by choosing to .

daz .

Hi Daz,
"I suppose chris that the key here Is to know thyself . What we are conscious of doesn’t always contain the bigger picture . I mean who In their right mind would consciously choose to have a lifetime full of sufferings "

Lots of people - at least in part because thier choice to avoid suffering can cause it in others.
Take Mother Teresa, Nelson Mandela, Jesus - and I gave up eating animals so as to avoid causing them suffering.
Look at the bigger picture and there are examples all around.

love
chris

Hi Daz

So If 100 people joined a sect or a cult movement are you saying that the Influence of that experience wouldn’t produce a particular mind set to the majority of them . Would you say that out of 100 women that were raped or sexually abused that many did not enter a particular mind set because of that experience and In that experience could effect the way that they behave towards men from that day forward .

Put 100 people through the same experience and you will have 100 different interpatations of that experience, you will also have 100 different ways in which they choose to internalise that experience, that is assuming that they all choose to internalise it at all.

The experience of Self realization transcends the Individual from one mind set to another . Winning the lottery can change a persons financial worried mind set Into a contented and secure one . Many are brainwashed just by watching t.v. (loll) .

It might help someone to not worry about where the next meal is coming from, but then again it can just as easy be interpreted by someone who has chosen to be a worrier into worrying about if someone is going to rob them of the lottery win.

The win in itself cannot change someones core way of being as that is something which is outside of them, transformational changes come from within.

I would say an individual that Is In expression of unconditional love will not be effected by experience In the same way as those that are not . It’s all about detaching the Identity of the person from what Is experienced .

No. it is not about detaching the person from past personal experiences, past experiences no longer exist, so there is nothing to detach them from.

What is 'unconditional love'? people like to use that phrase quite a lot, I do understand the word unconditional to mean without conditions or limits but there is no definition of the word love outside of a human emotional state of judgement.

Whilst we are In experience of physicality there are natural laws In place . It’s like a game of chess the first move one makes In physical expression (free will) can determine the outcome of the game . During the game If your knights and the bishops are taken you have limited options (limited freewill) as to how you can carry on with the game this being the result of previous actions taken . Initially you do not choose to have your knights and bishops taken from you .

Only if you choose to perceive things from that perspective, there are self made people all over the world, who have achieved great things and have them taken away from them, some will have chosen to become a helpless victim, whist others will have started from scratch and rebuilt in spite of stiff opposition.

You mention self perceptions having nothing to do with physical reality, and yet physical reality Is the platform where separation and self identification of being a person Is rife .

I did not say that, we create our own realities, which are based upon our core way of being, which in turn is directly influenced by our self perceptions, self perception is one of the keys to understanding consciousness.

Only a handful of Individuals let go of or change their perceptions of self because the ordinary mind that saturates physical experience Is most difficult to release from . We go from perceiving that we are someone to something to nothing to everything because what we are enquires as to what It Is that we are as we reflect on all that resides from within the environment we find ourselves experiencing whether It be In physical or spirit form or a formless form .

Most people do not realise what self perception is, never mind understanding how they set about changing it.

We create and maintain our own environment, that is also a personal choice.

And If the parent Is unaware or Is not educated as to how sugars can Influence their childs behaviour Is perhaps the child therefore held responsible for their parents unawareness . The child Is seduced by their senses of how good chocolate and cola tastes and Isn’t aware of anything other than . Is the child responsible for having a lack of nutritional knowledge .

This has nothing to do with nutritional knowledge, self discipline comes from within, if someone goes to the pub and has a couple of pints and then uses that as an excuse to start poring drinks over peoples heads and being abusive, then I suppose the drink has told the person that this is what they must do!

I don’t feel that a yard stick Is required I am pointing out that there are many . People can and do relate to them and some live there lives by them .

I agree, people can choose to do all sorts of things. 🙂

Hi Daz,
"I suppose chris that the key here Is to know thyself . What we are conscious of doesn’t always contain the bigger picture . I mean who In their right mind would consciously choose to have a lifetime full of sufferings "

Lots of people - at least in part because thier choice to avoid suffering can cause it in others.
Take Mother Teresa, Nelson Mandela, Jesus - and I gave up eating animals so as to avoid causing them suffering.
Look at the bigger picture and there are examples all around.

love
chris

Hi Chris .

Ah yes In that respect I would agree . For the likes of jesus / mother teresa they were already knowing thyself .They were aware / conscious of the bigger picture . I would guess that within the sufferings endured by them the love of God was present / felt always within their hearts .

For an individual that was lacking self love and the self / god connection whilst enduring sufferings would consciously choose not to suffer .

daz .

Hi Daz

Put 100 people through the same experience and you will have 100 different interpatations of that experience, you will also have 100 different ways in which they choose to internalise that experience, that is assuming that they all choose to internalise it at all.

Hi Paul . Good debate as always .

I understand that but generally speaking If 100 people watch their football team beat there teams rivals then the experience had of watching their football team stuff the opposition will create a happy mind set for them all . There may well be different levels of how happy they are, as In the same breath an experience of sexual abuse to 100 men or women will bring with that experience different levels of anger and fear for example . on the whole experiences had can Influence an Individuals mind set . How many millions of people that have had there hearts broken and ripped from within them then retreat within themselves In some kind of emotional defense mode . I am sure that’s happened to all at some stage of their life experience .

The win in itself cannot change someones core way of being as that is something which is outside of them, transformational changes come from within.

Nothing can change what we are from a core level I agree . I was coming from the perspective that winning the lottery can change someones mind set this being another reference of how Individuals mind sets can change through our experiences had . How many people are expressing what they are from a core level? There’s not many people In the world that are not swayed by life changing experiences . Why Is that? I would say that Is so because of the masses are not expressing their core self to begin with .

What is 'unconditional love'? people like to use that phrase quite a lot, I do understand the word unconditional to mean without conditions or limits but there is no definition of the word love outside of a human emotional state of judgement.

How I see it paul Is that when an Individual Is In expression of the self, that expression Is of love . Love can be expressed In many ways and there are no restraints as to how love can be In expression . Love therefore Is not restricted to an emotion expression It Is not restricted to our mental/Intellectual fields . Love Is within and beyond mind and Is beyond our understanding . Love Is beyond sense and reason . Unconditional love cannot be defined as such because Love Is what we are, and we cannot define what we are .

For those that have tasted the honey have a good try In explaining what honey tastes like though . lol . Unconditional love can be referenced therefore as being an expression of someone that Is self realized .

This has nothing to do with nutritional knowledge, self discipline comes from within, if someone goes to the pub and has a couple of pints and then uses that as an excuse to start poring drinks over peoples heads and being abusive, then I suppose the drink has told the person that this is what they must do!

If a child has knowledge of how foods effect their behaviour then perhaps the child can choose for themselves as to whether they want to eat natural foods and feel calm and relaxed or as to whether they want to eat processed foods and to dance around the room like a headless chicken . lol .

daz .

Hi Derek .

ha ha Good for you .

If an Individual chooses today to realize what they are will It be so .

daz .

Daz.

Today, for me, it is so. 😀

Hi Daz

I understand that but generally speaking If 100 people watch their football team beat there teams rivals then the experience had of watching their football team stuff the opposition will create a happy mind set for them all . There may well be different levels of how happy they are, as In the same breath an experience of sexual abuse to 100 men or women will bring with that experience different levels of anger and fear for example . on the whole experiences had can Influence an Individuals mind set . How many millions of people that have had there hearts broken and ripped from within them then retreat within themselves In some kind of emotional defense mode . I am sure that’s happened to all at some stage of their life experience .

It does not matter which way you dress it up, we are the way we are because we have chosen to be that way, mob mentality lasts as long as people are happy to embrace it, the way people choose to interpret experiences are personal choices otherwise everyone would experience the same thing in the same way and be governed by the experiences they have encountered instead of consciousness.

Nothing can change what we are from a core level I agree . I was coming from the perspective that winning the lottery can change someones mind set this being another reference of how Individuals mind sets can change through our experiences had . How many people are expressing what they are from a core level? There’s not many people In the world that are not swayed by life changing experiences . Why Is that? I would say that Is so because of the masses are not expressing their core self to begin with .

Actually everyone is expressing who they are from a core level, Adolf Hitler expressed self in his existence just the same as Mother Teresa did, all is one.

If someone is being a certain way, then that is what they perceive they should be (right and wrong does not come into the equation), but there is a big difference between what people choose to express as an outward expression of a chosen way of being and being real.

How I see it paul Is that when an Individual Is In expression of the self, that expression Is of love . Love can be expressed In many ways and there are no restraints as to how love can be In expression . Love therefore Is not restricted to an emotion expression It Is not restricted to our mental/Intellectual fields . Love Is within and beyond mind and Is beyond our understanding . Love Is beyond sense and reason . Unconditional love cannot be defined as such because Love Is what we are, and we cannot define what we are .

Using the above analogy, Adolf Hitler expressed his love for the Aryan race by taking them to war and attempting to exterminate other races, Mother Teresa expressed her love by helping those she perceived as needy.

They were both expressing self during their existence the same as everyone else does, so no the word love does not express self, so it must be something else. 🙂

If a child has knowledge of how foods effect their behaviour then perhaps the child can choose for themselves as to whether they want to eat natural foods and feel calm and relaxed or as to whether they want to eat processed foods and to dance around the room like a headless chicken . lol .

The food someone consumes will not make them do anything, we all have a free will which we can use to choose how we wish to be in any given situation, yes I know we are living in a time of the blame culture, but that only gives people a reason to choose not to take personal responsibility and use self control.

Hi Daz

Using the above analogy, Adolf Hitler expressed his love for the Aryan race by taking them to war and attempting to exterminate other races, Mother Teresa expressed her love by helping those she perceived as needy.

They were both expressing self during their existence the same as everyone else does, so no the word love does not express self, so it must be something else.

Hi Paul .

The self Is Love . The self Is the same self as you and I . The self Is what we are within mind . There Is no my self, their self, yourself . The self Is one . Therefore what we are within mind (the self) Is Love and Is expressed In various degrees through our energy bodies . Some Individuals are expressing more of what they are within physical experience . The reason why there are Individuals that have realized the self and others have not Is because they have dissolved the illusionary Identities that one can apply to what they think they are . If a Individual Is caught up In physicality and In emotion and In the Intellectual body then that Individual Is In a limited bubble of expression and not In expression of what they are at a core level . For many our mindful senses hold us back as the illusion of separation stares us right In the face . Whilst there Is an inch of mindful separation occurring within ones mindset full expression of the core self will not be .

In reference to hitler and mother teresa .

For sure they were both In expression . One Individual was In judgement whilst the other was not . Individuality allows Individual growth whilst still remaining In oneness, It’s just within mind many can seemingly sever that connection to what they are .

Hitler was judging one race above the other . That Isn’t an expression of the core self . If hitler was In an expression of the true self then he would of realized that he was Indeed not only killing the Jews but he was killing himself . An Individual that Is self realized Is aware of that . A self realized being does not kill another being, be It an ant or a buffalo . A self realized Individual will love a Jew as much as an Indian .

Actually everyone is expressing who they are from a core level, Adolf Hitler expressed self in his existence just the same as Mother Teresa did, all is one.

What we are at the core level Is Love . If hitlers Individual bubble of energy connected to what he Is (the self) at the core level that core essence would bring through an expression of equality . We are all one like you say . We are all the same . One race Is not above or below any other . Self realization brings that home .

Do you see spiritual masters that have detached their false Identities murdering the masses? All masters that have realized what they are all behave similarly because what we In In expression through a physical experience Is about unity, peace, love, joy etc . When an Individual Is In expression of those qualities then they are being themselves .

daz .

Hi Daz

The self Is Love . The self Is the same self as you and I . The self Is what we are within mind . There Is no my self, their self, yourself . The self Is one . Therefore what we are within mind (the self) Is Love and Is expressed In various degrees through our energy bodies . Some Individuals are expressing more of what they are within physical experience . The reason why there are Individuals that have realized the self and others have not Is because they have dissolved the illusionary Identities that one can apply to what they think they are . If a Individual Is caught up In physicality and In emotion and In the Intellectual body then that Individual Is In a limited bubble of expression and not In expression of what they are at a core level . For many our mindful senses hold us back as the illusion of separation stares us right In the face . Whilst there Is an inch of mindful separation occurring within ones mindset full expression of the core self will not be .

Yes I understand the oneness and all is one, but I also understand that when we come and visit this physical reality we come with blank aspects of self or consciousness, so whilst we are here the I AM is whatever we choose it to be.

The core essence of a human being is empty when we come here, it is then formed out of our thought patterns and beliefs, which develop as we move through our physical existence, there is no point in coming here, if we are not prepared to embrace the physical reality we have chosen to experience.

Yes I understand the illusion of separateness, but in this physical reality, two physical bodies cannot inhabit the same space at the same time, it is only outside of the physical within consciousness that we can embrace the oneness, it is not a physical reality.

In reference to hitler and mother teresa .

For sure they were both In expression . One Individual was In judgement whilst the other was not . Individuality allows Individual growth whilst still remaining In oneness, It’s just within mind many can seemingly sever that connection to what they are .

Hitler was judging one race above the other . That Isn’t an expression of the core self . If hitler was In an expression of the true self then he would of realized that he was Indeed not only killing the Jews but he was killing himself . An Individual that Is self realized Is aware of that . A self realized being does not kill another being, be It an ant or a buffalo . A self realized Individual will love a Jew as much as an Indian .

Yes I understand the ramifications of being judgemental, if a person chooses to become judgemental, then their core way of being is formed out of judgement and since their existence is being created around their core way of being, then their whole physical existence becomes judgemental.

Please remember that as we are all one, to say that a self realised individual does not kill another being, is actually being judgemental, everyone is quite capable of doing anything that anyone else does should they choose to, when we take judgement out of the equation, we are only left with people expressing their chosen core way of being.

What we are at the core level Is Love . If hitlers Individual bubble of energy connected to what he Is (the self) at the core level that core essence would bring through an expression of equality . We are all one like you say . We are all the same . One race Is not above or below any other . Self realization brings that home .

Do you see spiritual masters that have detached their false Identities murdering the masses? All masters that have realized what they are all behave similarly because what we In In expression through a physical experience Is about unity, peace, love, joy etc . When an Individual Is In expression of those qualities then they are being themselves .

You say that at the core level we are all love, but you have not explained what love is?

I understand the words judgement and the reverse which is non-judgement and how both words will set up a different core way of being, the good thing about these words is that they are clearly defined with meanings which can be expressed with clearly defined understanding, these are both usable and teachable, the same cannot be said for the word love which is not clearly defined, so as you choose to make use of this word, then perhaps you could have a stab at defining it!

Just a few thoughts drawn randomly from this thread:

Paul said:

Put 100 people through the same experience and you will have 100 different interpretations of that experience, you will also have 100 different ways in which they choose to internalise that experience, that is assuming that they all choose to internalise it at all.

Theoretically this is true, but it ignores the fact that there is a statistical normal mode of interpretation and internalisation, this cannot simply be brushed aside because it is inconvenient, this is just blinkered bias. This is (for instance) how advertising or political manipulation works. So an experience (like rape, which I did not bring up) will have some predictable affects on a group of people. To simply assume that it is their responsibility as to how they react is ignoring the evidence.

No. it is not about detaching the person from past personal experiences, past experiences no longer exist, so there is nothing to detach them from.

- yes there is - the mental and emotional affects that those incidents had are still a part of the person and they way they live and think and behave. I asked before - have you ever listened to someone who was a victim of child abuse?? - have you heard how every time they close their eyes that is all they see, how they cannot escape it - because what you are doing by saying that to one of them is telling them that they are at fault - just remember who the victim is.

The issue of choice also makes some assumptions - not the least of which is that we always have a choice. Assuming that we do is valid only in certain circumstances, but for many they do not live in circumstances that meet these conditions. Those that live in poverty (for example) cannot choose to live differently, society locks them into their circumstances. This kind of 'reduced freedom' applies right through our lives to some extent or other - it is part of living within a society. Removing some of these restrictions (say by winning the lottery) opens up choices that may have been previously unavailable.

Daz said

Nothing can change what we are from a core level

- and this too is wrong. We do evolve, that is why we are here and part of that is an evolution of who we are even at a core level, we do not change who we are, but we grow and become different with each experience.

Paul said

The food someone consumes will not make them do anything

- medically this is totally wrong, and if you change medicine for the word food is makes it clearer why this is wrong - chemicals within our bodies change our behaviour and can negate self-control.
And

I know we are living in a time of the blame culture, but that only gives people a reason to choose not to take personal responsibility and use self control.

just exhibits a lack of a caring attitude and a judgemental view of people who are in need.

The core essence of a human being is empty when we come here

- Paul, a big statement - what evidence is there of this - because there is plenty of evidence that we do not come 'empty', but that some aspects are closed to us normally.

love
chris

Hi Daz

The core essence of a human being is empty when we come here, it is then formed out of our thought patterns and beliefs, which develop as we move through our physical existence, there is no point in coming here, if we are not prepared to embrace the physical reality we have chosen to experience.

Hi Paul .

The core essence of what we are Is always present within physical experience . You mention the core essence of a human being Is empty when we come here . I would say that we do not remember what we are In the first Instance of our physical birth If that’s the point your making . Remembering what we are Is the same as the realization . Many have remembered what they are whilst experiencing human form many times over and that awareness continues to be present with a new born . It just takes a while to Integrate that awareness within our mind-sets as we adjust to our new surroundings . Some never remember within a lifetime, It can take thousands of lifetimes .

Our core self eventually dissolves our thought patterns and our belief systems that we have accumulated within life experience because we cannot realize the self whilst we hold on to them . The self requires freedom from the ordinary mind or the lower mind as some will say . We are both the jailer and the prisoner . We are both the puppeteer and the puppet . We hold the key to our own freedom and we can cut the strings to those mind-sets that seemingly contain/control us .

The point In coming here ... Is to remember what we are whilst reflecting upon all that life has to offer us . Yes embrace It but also renounce It . In other words don’t get caught up In It . If an individual does then they are a prisoner of their own making . Sometimes the saying goes we are our own worse enemy at times lol .

Yes I understand the ramifications of being judgemental, if a person chooses to become judgemental, then their core way of being is formed out of judgement and since their existence is being created around their core way of being, then their whole physical existence becomes judgemental.

Please remember that as we are all one, to say that a self realised individual does not kill another being, is actually being judgemental, everyone is quite capable of doing anything that anyone else does should they choose to, when we take judgement out of the equation, we are only left with people expressing their chosen core way of being.

There core way of being If In judgement Is not the core expression of what they are . If a person decides to experience judgement then so be it, the Individual will eventually learn that whilst In judgement they are only In reflection of what they are In expression of . That not being what they are at a core level . Your right that If one Is full of judgement there existence becomes judgemental, but the answer there Is not to be consumed by our thoughts . What you resent you will become . That’s why Individuals have to let go “always” of what’s contained within a lower mind set - the judgements the concepts, the desires etc, .

You say that at the core level we are all love, but you have not explained what love is?

I understand the words judgement and the reverse which is non-judgement and how both words will set up a different core way of being, the good thing about these words is that they are clearly defined with meanings which can be expressed with clearly defined understanding, these are both usable and teachable, the same cannot be said for the word love which is not clearly defined, so as you choose to make use of this word, then perhaps you could have a stab at defining it!

There Is a fine line between judging and noticing / observing . Is saying all Is one made In judgement or Is an individual that has experienced oneness just speaking what Is . The sun Is hot and round . God Is Love . Are they observations or judgements? .

All those that have realized the self or what they are connect with the oneness as have I . There Is no way that a self realized Individual will wipe out half the population of a race of people . Is that I making a judgement or am I speaking of what’s Is true .

In regards to love . Within the oneness of what you are what we know within mind as love Is not love, nor Is joy or peace . Only within mind with the use of our energy bodies can we filter what we are through them so to speak . If your heart centre Is out of balance / blocked or whatever we are not expressing emotional love to our full potential for example, If we believe In concepts like we are going to hell If we sin then what we are cannot express ourselves Intellectually through our mental bodies, as like water cannot flow through a blocked pipe .

The more blocks and attachments made within our physical experience the less of our core being Is In expression . I said In an earlier post somewhere the key Is to be In the world but not of the world .

What we are and love Is the same . Of course love Is just a word . What we are / Love cannot be defined . In the mind only can we try and describe what Is realized when we are dissolved back Into the oneness . That’s why when an individual tries to explain self expression that It Is Indeed an expression of love that Isn’t conditioned .

An individual that Is not conditioned will eventually be In expression of the self . That expression only comes about when the Individual has released themselves from conditioning of the ordinary mind and of their karmic ties .

daz .

Daz said "Nothing can change what we are from a core level" - and this too is wrong. We do evolve, that is why we are here and part of that is an evolution of who we are even at a core level, we do not change who we are, but we grow and become different with each experience.

Hi Chris .

Just saying that I appreciate all the comments made by all In this Interesting debate . :045:

In reply to your quote .

My take on this Is .

Lets say I use an orange as an example . The orange Is whole and Is complete beyond mind . .

It matters not If we peel an orange and remove each segment of the orange and create a mindful experience for the orange to remember the oneness that It once had experienced . .

Nothing can change what the orange Is and nothing can change the core essence of the orange whether It dresses up as a grape and fragments It’s self from one corner of the earth to another . It matters not If one segment meets another segment and judges that “other” to be separate from them . As we experience life It’s easy to create illusions and diversions that keep us from realizing what we have always been .

When the concepts and the theories become evident In one’s mind set as to whether the orange originated from space or as to whether we were Interbred with a banana are all devised to keep us In a mindful merry-go-round that keeps us from remembering what we are at the core .

What we are at the core does not evolve . Our conscious levels and our awareness levels when they expand/rise within our mindful experience gives the Impression that we are evolving - we are just returning to the realization of what we are and have always been .

Everyday I would say can bring new experiences In ways to remember as Is the diversity of life .

What could the orange evolve Into . All there Is Is what we are and what we are Is perfect as It Is . lol .

daz .

Hi Chris

Theoretically this is true, but it ignores the fact that there is a statistical normal mode of interpretation and internalisation, this cannot simply be brushed aside because it is inconvenient, this is just blinkered bias. This is (for instance) how advertising or political manipulation works. So an experience (like rape, which I did not bring up) will have some predictable affects on a group of people. To simply assume that it is their responsibility as to how they react is ignoring the evidence.

Anything is possible, so yes some people will not easily walk away from a traumatic experience unscathed, whilst others simply let go of the emotional turmoil and move on.

The problem with statistical evidence, is that it is done to prove or disprove a theory, unfortunately since most of the research on this type of thing is based upon the original experience, which no longer exists, then the research is largely flawed and does not bear out in practical reality.

Our experience is that everyone is personally responsible for what is going on within them, once they realise this, together with realising that they have a choice in the matter, things move along at a pace and are resolved within consciousness where they are being created without any physically created emotional fallout.

the mental and emotional affects that those incidents had are still a part of the person and they way they live and think and behave. I asked before - have you ever listened to someone who was a victim of child abuse??

Sorry but you are barking up the wrong tree, I understand child abuse form personal experience and helping others to heal their memories of such, the reality is, we have a choice how we wish to interpret anything, it is those choices which are still there, nothing else.

- have you heard how every time they close their eyes that is all they see, how they cannot escape it - because what you are doing by saying that to one of them is telling them that they are at fault - just remember who the victim is.

No, they were potentially a victim once upon a time, but unless something is happening to them right now, then they are no longer a victim, unless they choose to be one within their consciousness.

The issue of choice also makes some assumptions - not the least of which is that we always have a choice. Assuming that we do is valid only in certain circumstances, but for many they do not live in circumstances that meet these conditions. Those that live in poverty (for example) cannot choose to live differently, society locks them into their circumstances. This kind of 'reduced freedom' applies right through our lives to some extent or other - it is part of living within a society. Removing some of these restrictions (say by winning the lottery) opens up choices that may have been previously unavailable.

Why do you think that someone can only change their circumstances by winning the lottery, there are self made millionaires all over the world, who have started with nothing and without a windfall or a leg up have managed to transform their reality by sheer hard work and inner vision.

medically this is totally wrong, and if you change medicine for the word food is makes it clearer why this is wrong - chemicals within our bodies change our behaviour and can negate self-control.

The question is, if eating a certain type of food created a certain behavioural reaction, as in a placid person suddenly goes berserk and starts to kill everyone in sight, then if you gave 1.000,000 people this same food then they would all go out and do exactly the same thing, if one or more people do not do this, then your understanding is wrong.

I know we are living in a time of the blame culture, but that only gives people a reason to choose not to take personal responsibility and use self control.

just exhibits a lack of a caring attitude and a judgemental view of people who are in need.

That is reality. 🙂

The core essence of a human being is empty when we come here

Paul, a big statement - what evidence is there of this - because there is plenty of evidence that we do not come 'empty', but that some aspects are closed to us normally.

Just watch a child develop, they do not know what they should be, they emulate the people around them, then develop their core way of being as their understanding grows, if they already had this information, then there would be no confusion as to who someone was.

Hi Daz

The point In coming here ... Is to remember what we are whilst reflecting upon all that life has to offer us . Yes embrace It but also renounce It . In other words don’t get caught up In It . If an individual does then they are a prisoner of their own making . Sometimes the saying goes we are our own worse enemy at times lol .

Why do you think we need to come here to remember who and what we are?
Why do you think that we need to renounce this physical reality instead of embracing it and every experience that it offers us?
This physical life is for living, it might only last a few seconds or many years, but it only lasts for one physical life time; do you not think it would be far better to take the bull by the horns and ride it to exhaustion?

There core way of being If In judgement Is not the core expression of what they are . If a person decides to experience judgement then so be it, the Individual will eventually learn that whilst In judgement they are only In reflection of what they are In expression of . That not being what they are at a core level . Your right that If one Is full of judgement there existence becomes judgemental, but the answer there Is not to be consumed by our thoughts . What you resent you will become . That’s why Individuals have to let go “always” of what’s contained within a lower mind set - the judgements the concepts, the desires etc, .

We do not take our lower aspects of consciousness back with us to the oneness, they are created when we come here for the here and now, to allow us to experience this physical reality with a clean slate, they have no bearing upon our true authentic self which is always constant and complete.

By judging self, people do as you say lock themselves up and restrict themselves from experiencing life, the only way to stop being judgemental is to become non-judgemental, by judging our lower aspects of consciousness as being something which we need to be let go off, is to judge it as wrong and create an inner conflict.

All those that have realized the self or what they are connect with the oneness as have I . There Is no way that a self realized Individual will wipe out half the population of a race of people . Is that I making a judgement or am I speaking of what’s Is true .

That is you making a statement which for you at this moment is true, another day given the right circumstances, it might become false.

You can not speak for anyone but yourself, that is because you are the only person who is responsible for your own thoughts and the resulting actions, what anyone else chooses to think and do is their responsibility.

What we are and love Is the same . Of course love Is just a word . What we are / Love cannot be defined . In the mind only can we try and describe what Is realized when we are dissolved back Into the oneness . That’s why when an individual tries to explain self expression that It Is Indeed an expression of love that Isn’t conditioned .

You are correct that love is a meaningless word, with no real definition, yet people throw it around like a badge of office, but the word love is usually intrinsically entwined with judgement and a whole host of other self limiting words.

IMO it is helpful to use more meaningful words to express self . 🙂

Hi Daz

Why do you think we need to come here to remember who and what we are?
Why do you think that we need to renounce this physical reality instead of embracing it and every experience that it offers us?
This physical life is for living, it might only last a few seconds or many years, but it only lasts for one physical life time; do you not think it would be far better to take the bull by the horns and ride it to exhaustion?

🙂

Hi Paul . 🙂

Within mind Is the only place so to speak where we can know/realize the self . Beyond mind there Is no you or I there Is no self . In the state of oneness In the darkness there Is no light, there Is no-thing to reflect upon and there Is no-thing to compare what we are too .

Our creative universe allows what we are to experience what we are within the journey of self exploration . Of course for many a thousand lifetimes we delve In to what the physical experience has to offer us, we delve In to dark and light experience, war, peace sexuality, religion, spirituality, birth, death, materialism and so forth .

There comes a time or a stage within ones journey where there Is a longing or a pull coming from within . What Is acknowledged Is that “real” joy, happiness, love, peace etc, resides within, for many will continually look for this outside of the self for contentment . The longing to realize what we are Is a natural process that will happen to us all eventually as they awaken from what they thought they were and along with that the seeing through the substitute joys that are just temporary and lack sustenance .

So that’s why I think we come here to remember who and what we are . Life contains within It a process where we eventually come from a state of not remembering to remembering the self . Each Individual may take a different and unique path back to the self but we will all end up back In to the ocean nevertheless .

I did by the way say that by all means embrace life - just don’t get caught up In It . We can seemingly lose ourselves If we attach ourselves to anything .

We do not take our lower aspects of consciousness back with us to the oneness, they are created when we come here for the here and now, to allow us to experience this physical reality with a clean slate, they have no bearing upon our true authentic self which is always constant and complete.

Yes we do not take our lower aspects back with us Into the oneness . It’s not even possible . We cannot reach the realization of oneness within a lower mind set . We have to shed our false skins before we can pass through the eye of the needle . I agree that mind-sets do not have any bearing upon our authentic self .

You can not speak for anyone but yourself, that is because you are the only person who is responsible for your own thoughts and the resulting actions, what anyone else chooses to think and do is their responsibility.

In many ways that Is true paul although when an Individual has tasted oneness It Is the same oneness for all . There are no differences In opinions for there Is no-one there experiencing the oneness . It can only be described when the Individual returns back Into mind and uses their Intellect to try and describe the unity the love and the peace that was In awareness . So In that respect an Individual that has experienced what they are can speak wholeheartedly and without any doubt on behalf of another who has realized the same thing .

You are correct that love is a meaningless word, with no real definition, yet people throw it around like a badge of office, but the word love is usually intrinsically entwined with judgement and a whole host of other self limiting words.

IMO it is helpful to use more meaningful words to express self .

I don’t think that there are any words that come close to anything related to what we are . Words and language fall far short of what can be realized .

dazzle .

Hi Dazzle.

Within mind Is the only place so to speak where we can know/realize the self . Beyond mind there Is no you or I there Is no self . In the state of oneness In the darkness there Is no light, there Is no-thing to reflect upon and there Is no-thing to compare what we are too .

Our creative universe allows what we are to experience what we are within the journey of self exploration . Of course for many a thousand lifetimes we delve In to what the physical experience has to offer us, we delve In to dark and light experience, war, peace sexuality, religion, spirituality, birth, death, materialism and so forth .

There comes a time or a stage within ones journey where there Is a longing or a pull coming from within . What Is acknowledged Is that “real” joy, happiness, love, peace etc, resides within, for many will continually look for this outside of the self for contentment . The longing to realize what we are Is a natural process that will happen to us all eventually as they awaken from what they thought they were and along with that the seeing through the substitute joys that are just temporary and lack sustenance .

So that’s why I think we come here to remember who and what we are . Life contains within It a process where we eventually come from a state of not remembering to remembering the self . Each Individual may take a different and unique path back to the self but we will all end up back In to the ocean nevertheless .

I did by the way say that by all means embrace life - just don’t get caught up In It . We can seemingly lose ourselves If we attach ourselves to anything .

An interesting concept. 🙂

To my understanding, what we perceive as self within our thinking mind is a pale illusion of our true nature, the oneness is made up of incalculable beings of pure consciousness, who are complete within the oneness of consciousness, but they are all individuals that reside with accordance with each other within the oneness.

Yes, to perceive light as we understand it in our physical form, we need something to see it with, as in eyes which consciousness does not have, but because there is no perception of light within pure consciousness, that does not make it dark as it does here.

The I AM is complete within self so does not require reflection or comparison which requires judgement within the oneness, as all is one then judgement is not required.

I would say that the alternative realities including this material one which are created within the oneness of consciousness gives us the opportunity to experience whatever we choose to experience within them.

Now since our perceptions of self whilst visiting alternative realities are largely based upon an illusion, then we should not take ourselves too seriously and get on and enjoy the experiences that we have afforded ourselves.

I remember reading a good thought on this somewhere, though I can't remember where it was, but the gist of the tale was that a young man in his late 20s was climbing into his coffin looking a bit perplexed and complaining that he should not be doing this, due to the fact that he had trained every day, eaten healthily, never drank, smoked or taken drugs and he had never do anything wrong. Next to him was a much older person also climbing into their coffin, looking worse for wear, with a cigar in one hand and a bottle of champagne in the other, this person looked around, smiled and said that was fun, let's do it again.

Love me, hate me you ain't going to change me. 😀

Hi Dazzle.

Now since our perceptions of self whilst visiting alternative realities are largely based upon an illusion, then we should not take ourselves too seriously and get on and enjoy the experiences that we have afforded ourselves.

I remember reading a good thought on this somewhere, though I can't remember where it was, but the gist of the tale was that a young man in his late 20s was climbing into his coffin looking a bit perplexed and complaining that he should not be doing this, due to the fact that he had trained every day, eaten healthily, never drank, smoked or taken drugs and he had never do anything wrong. Next to him was a much older person also climbing into their coffin, looking worse for wear, with a cigar in one hand and a bottle of champagne in the other, this person looked around, smiled and said that was fun, let's do it again.

Hi Paul .

Ha ha . Yes . Sound advice within the story .

I think I could manipulate and stretch and pull your message containing not to take ourselves too seriously and apply my understandings of not firmly attaching one's self to anything or anyone .

If an Individuals expression could relate to a kite that dances In the air of life, then what becomes of one's expression once the kite has got caught up In a barbed wired fence . lol .

daz .