"Being in the Moment" argument

Very good points! I never thought of it this way...

I tried to read 'The Power of Now' a couple of years ago but had to give up. Not only was it incredibly difficult to read, some of it was so nonsensical it made me laugh out loud! I totally agree with you. There are times when you need to clarify your thoughts and be 'in the moment', but in order to function every day, you have to make balanced judgements which will inevitably refer to your past experience or potential outcome.

Hello Jbarry, this is an interesting was of looking at being in the Now, however I'm not sure to live in the now means being say shipwrecked and thinking 'I hope the sharks don't eat me' to think this would be a normal and reasonable fear, my interpretation of being in the now is that it is not healthy and serves no purpose to dwell on the past and worry about the future in an every day kind of way, and in my own personal experience the things I used to spend a great deal worrying about (future events) either never happened or something the exact opposite and therefore good happened instead.

Love

Rebecca x

same sort of thing as giving birth perhaps - you arne't thinking of the pain but the baby at the end of the process?

what a great topic, Depression can sometimes be a very hard thing to understand. It is sometimes difficult to see and analyse things from another person's point of view isn't it.

I tried to read 'The Power of Now' a couple of years ago but had to give up. Not only was it incredibly difficult to read, some of it was so nonsensical it made me laugh out loud!

Each to their own, Tigerlily. There are many many people who don't find anything nonsensical in The Power of Now. I often recommend it to people who are starting out on a 'spiritual path'. Personally I find that worrying, anxiety, depression etc only begin for me when I forget to 'be here now'. Then I remind myself that right now this minute I have a roof over my head, food in the fridge, heat to keep me warm, clothes to wear and a bed to sleep in. I recognise that there are people to whom these statements don't apply but I am not living inside their bodies but in my own. And it works for me.
As for living an organised life, if I have to make an appointment I write it in my diary. Every day I check whether I have anything to do....then I do it. What good does worrying about the future do? What good does agonising about the past do? Being in the moment is highly recommended by many teachers....but if it doesn't do it for you, fair enough.
Edit to say that my last sentence is not aimed specifically at Tigerlily but at the thread starter.

Just some thoughts...

NOT being in the moment is one of the key things that makes us 'human' - in that we can imagine, plan, think about consequences based on past experiences etc...

I'm sure it's a good thing to avoid getting too hung up over the past while not getting overly anxious about the future, and try to appreciate current experience for what it is - but to try to live totally in the moment would be to take away our humanity.

Maybe it's the balance of both. Been either vegetive or wrapped up in our neurotic activities are both extremes. Life is motivation and movement, even if we are sitting or standing still, the body still moves. Not forgetting the "monkey" mind, swinging from thought to thought. Prehaps we need to be aware of our everyday activities mindfully - that includes awareness of the here and now, as well as suitable planning and reflection (both past & future). I think I will bring this topic up with my Tai Chi classes next week - see how this relates to their tai chi and everyday movements.

It's good that JB has brought up this issue of the NOW. It's bit like positive thinking, it just ends up being an intellectual exercise or even another form of escapism. People talk about it - but do they actually do it?

RP

NOT being in the moment is one of the key things that makes us 'human' - in that we can imagine, plan, think about consequences based on past experiences etc...

I'm sure it's a good thing to avoid getting too hung up over the past while not getting overly anxious about the future, and try to appreciate current experience for what it is - but to try to live totally in the moment would be to take away our humanity.

John, I think you're perhaps unaware of where this teaching comes from. Being in the moment in no way takes away your humanity, if anything it makes you a 'better' human being. Being in the moment is a really beneficial way to live, according to many traditions, especially the Eastern ones. Your comment makes me think that you don't really 'get' it if you think that it's an undesirable way to live.

But of course what works for one person may not do so for another. We all have our own paths to tread.

In my understanding and my clinical experience as a psychotherapist, anxiety, depression and addiction have nothing to do with being "in the now". In fact, learning to be in the here and now would be a significant and important component of treatment for all of these issues.

* In anxiety disorders, the focus is primarily on the future and the imaginary feared events.

* In depression, the focus is typically on the past losses and failures, and hopelessness for the future.

* In addictions, whilst the "buzz" of taking/using/smoking/drinking the addictive substance or doing the compulsive behaviour, appears to take place "in the moment", it is important to note that the addictive craving or urge typically masks some kind of anxiety/fear (future-oriented) or loss/unsatisfied need (past-oriented).

The skill of being in the now - being with the sights, sounds, smells, tastes and sensations of the world around us, is a major part (some people would say - the only necessary part) of healing for numerous psychological problems. The methods by which this is best learnt could be varied for different people - I personally found The Power of Now to be quite enlightening, but of course it is won't suit everyone. There are many other ways of learning to be in the now, like really paying attention to what you see, hear and feel when you are out in the nature, being absorbed in music, dancing, playing with you cat or dog, etc.

Masha

John, I think you're perhaps unaware of where this teaching comes from. Being in the moment in no way takes away your humanity, if anything it makes you a 'better' human being. Being in the moment is a really beneficial way to live, according to many traditions, especially the Eastern ones. Your comment makes me think that you don't really 'get' it if you think that it's an undesirable way to live.

But of course what works for one person may not do so for another. We all have our own paths to tread.

One assumption could be that one doesn't 'get it' if they offer an alternative view. Another could be that they do 'get it' but are simply offering an alternative perspective...

One assumption could be that one doesn't 'get it' if they offer an alternative view. Another could be that they do 'get it' but are simply offering an alternative perspective...

Yes, assumptions are tricky things, aren't they? Hope I didn't offend you.

Yes, assumptions are tricky things, aren't they? Hope I didn't offend you.

Thanks... At first I was a little annoyed at reading your comment, but then I realised that there was probably no intention to annoy so it's not a problem. Quick comments in these kind of environments can sometimes be a little one dimensional levaing lots of room for many different interpretations.

Thanks... At first I was a little annoyed at reading your comment, but then I realised that there was probably no intention to annoy so it's not a problem. Quick comments in these kind of environments can sometimes be a little one dimensional levaing lots of room for many different interpretations.

Absolutely. Here we all are chatting away with people we know nothing about and whom we've never met. It's so easy to write something which is read differently from the way it's intended. Difficult too to say exactly what one means.
xxx

Mindfulness

Hi All,

Some thoughts on mindfulness: There is good evidence that learning mindfulness skills are effective at preventing relapse of chronic depression and anxiety. Mindfulness is being adapted to a wide range of psychological problems. There is also evidence that it has benefits to physiological function and can improve well-being and high level performance (Jonny Wilkinson uses a simple practice paying attention to his thumbs before kicking to bring himself into the moment and not to be distracted by the narrative of situation). It is also being adapted for schools.

Most of us spend too much time thinking. Mindfulness skills help us to spend more time attending to bodily sensations. There is a wisdom in the body that we can cut ourselves off from if we are caught up in thinking too much.

Mindfulness, from Buddhist teachings, includes four elements: mindfulness of body, mindfulness of pleasant, unpleasant and neutral responses to sensations and feelings, mindfulness of thoughts and emotions (considered to be inseparable) and mindfulness of each integrated moment of experience.

Mindfulness is applying non-judgmental awareness to each object of attention. This trains attention and makes awareness more vivid. Mindfulness is about being able to direct attention and awareness at will from one thing to another as opposed to being driven by our experience of thoughts, emotions and sensations. Mindfulness is about taming the wild elephant of the mind. When it is tamed, the mind becomes the most powerful of allies. When it is not tamed it can run amuck.

"Being in the now" is part of mindfulness. Mindfulness actually allows us to let go of a personal narrative to "be in the now" of sensory experiences, when that is most appropriate. Mindfulness gives us the capacity to be aware to choose to focus attention on thinking when problem solving is useful. It doesn't mean being trapped in each moment like an animal.

Language processing is a special characteristic of being human and is quite a recent development in evolution. Language processing co-opts areas of brain that would, in an animal be doing other things. Language processing can literally make our nervous system and bodies relive events that are imaginary. This can be a good thing but it can also get to be a habit that is telling our bodies that we are under threat when we aren't. This causes stress when there is actually no need to run from say, a sabre toothed tiger. Our bodies don't understand that we are just imagining things when we worry about things. We can get caught up with our thoughts of fear for example when there is no threat at all and our bodies think we are under threat and can get locked into fight or flight settings. We are peculiar animals, at least in modern society, in that we have to learn to be more like animals when that is what our bodies need.

Norbu

I suspect that it isn't good to be anyone thing all of the time, that their is a time for being in the moment(mindful) and a time for forethought. Their are always grey areas and levels and it would be too easy to be just one thing or too hard. That would make you inflexible and would probably lead to stagnation.

Beautifully said. You have succeeded in describing mindulfullness in a way I can completely accept and hopefully apply. Thank you for sharing your insights.

Teresa

I'm coming into this one a bit late, but never mind...

We often hear about we should always try to be in the moment but this is probably not true, according to Tao philosophy there are always two sides to a coin so to speak so you would never commit to doing just one thing or one side of a coin. For example when you hear of survivors of horrible circumstance, say I thought constantly of I was going to be eaten by the sharks that were around me which would have made them more scared. They probably said something like I thought of my family and making it back to them or something similar. This is an example of a time not to be in the moment, some people that do not have the ability to look forward to something and are held in the moment by their cravings and vice versa. Being in the moment has its time, ...

I suspect that it isn't good to be anyone thing all of the time, that their is a time for being in the moment(mindful) and a time for forethought. Their are always grey areas and levels and it would be too easy to be just one thing or too hard. That would make you inflexible and would probably lead to stagnation.

I don't believe that's the case. Let me please give my perspective of it...

In your example of a person being surrounded by sharks, you say that their thinking of their family helped them to be less scared. In a sense this is true, but the thought of the family is what actually took them away from the fears, which are ideas created from past memories, and brought them to the present moment, so that they could actually act in the Now. If their thoughts had continued to stay on their family then they would not have acted at all and this would clearly put them at just as much risk as if they had stayed in the fear. It was being in the moment and being present that actually saved them, but they just aren't perceiving that part of it when they look back at the situation, because the memory is of the moment when they thought of their family and how that took away the fear; they don't see that they became present/mindful/in the Now.

You also seem to assume that being present prevents forethought, as does John_D when he says:

NOT being in the moment is one of the key things that makes us 'human' - in that we can imagine, plan, think about consequences based on past experiences etc...

I'm sure it's a good thing to avoid getting too hung up over the past while not getting overly anxious about the future, and try to appreciate current experience for what it is - but to try to live totally in the moment would be to take away our humanity.

The point of being mindful/present is to act in the Now. That doesn't mean that we can't use reasoning based on experience to determine a suitable course of action for the present moment, but that we shouldn't let judgement/emotion/fear etc. get in the way. For example, I know that, from experience, if I want to walk forward, I have to lift my legs in a particular way and place them one in front of the other. I don't have to just act in any random way now and hope that it works, I have to use past experience to do that (and we all do that so automatically based on past experience, and it's all how we learn to walk as children). However, if I were starting to walk along the top of a high wall, I could let preconceived ideas of falling and hurting myself from the past get in the way and this fear could get in the way and distract me from acting out the simple action of walking; after all there's no reason why I should be incapable of putting one foot sure footedly in front of the other such that I could easily walk along that wall. By remaining present and in the moment, I would simply act in the manner necessary for that moment and let all other thoughts of past and future go.

Becky, I believe understands my own viewpoint on this from what she has said...

however I'm not sure to live in the now means being say shipwrecked and thinking 'I hope the sharks don't eat me' to think this would be a normal and reasonable fear, my interpretation of being in the now is that it is not healthy and serves no purpose to dwell on the past and worry about the future in an every day kind of way, and in my own personal experience the things I used to spend a great deal worrying about (future events) either never happened or something the exact opposite and therefore good happened instead.

... as has Sunanda in her replies.

I think almost everyone would agree that no two situations ever act out exactly the same, so it would also be fair to say from that that to base our actions on past experiences to expect and exact future outcome that we don't know would be futile and detract from acting on what is really happening here and now.

All Love and Reiki Hugs

I might say it this way, that for normal people mindfulness is a good thing. I know it has helped me over the years. The chinese philosophy of the five elements say enjoy all of your past, future and current emotions because in that way we are living to the fullest- just don't get stuck in them. People that have depression, addiction and other similar problems have no forward momentum in my observation, you can explain consequences or give them all kinds of ways to overcome their problems yet they do not respond even though they agree with everything you say. They have no horse to pull their cart so to speak, I myself have all kinds of things to want to do and my intention propels me forward. I don't think survivors dwell alot on past thoughts about their family as that could go in the wrong direction possibly thinking depressed thoughts like I will not be there for them and the like, but I believe possibly its more of an intention and spirit that drives them forward. We respond to cues to do what is necessary and rely on knowledge to do the right thing without getting in our own way and thinking too much hopefully. Bruce Lee, who had a degree in philosophy once said something like this, if he were ever arrested for using his martial arts in self defense that he would say "it did it", refering to the fact that his body defended itself from the knowledge that he had trained into it. Fear can freeze you in the moment such as the shark analogy, and intention and spirit keep you moving from moment to moment much like "will" that Norbu mentioned. Maybe we can get a comment from a survivor to better understand.

Maybe it's the balance of both. Been either vegetive or wrapped up in our neurotic activities are both extremes. Life is motivation and movement, even if we are sitting or standing still, the body still moves. Not forgetting the "monkey" mind, swinging from thought to thought. Prehaps we need to be aware of our everyday activities mindfully - that includes awareness of the here and now, as well as suitable planning and reflection (both past & future). I think I will bring this topic up with my Tai Chi classes next week - see how this relates to their tai chi and everyday movements.

It's good that JB has brought up this issue of the NOW. It's bit like positive thinking, it just ends up being an intellectual exercise or even another form of escapism. People talk about it - but do they actually do it?

RP

What a really interesting topic 🙂 I think Reiki Pixie puts it very eloquently. By nature of our beings we remember the past and plan for the future, to try to avoid that would be madness. Likewise to be so wrapped up in future and past that we miss the present would be a shame.

there's a middle ground, surely?

In answer to the shark scenario, people truly in the moment wouldn't be thinking the shark is going to eat them, would they? Because "going to" implies a future action, even if its seconds away.

... I would say they would be experiencing high levels of fear, coupled with a bit of being in the future of planning "what the heck is going to happen and how the heck am I going to deal with it??"

Sometimes fear is there for a reason: it promotes best possible chance of survival. And, if there were no escape, I feel it is probably closely related to the "give up and mentally escape" response that living beings seem to sometimes go through when faced with imminent unavoidable death. I remember one person's account of being trapped inside farm machinery: their arms & legs were ripped off, yet they felt a euphoric sense of escape, rather than the extreme pain you would have expected.

I waffle, don't I?! 😮

Fast Forward-Back: Micro Time Travel

I think the ability to view any present/current difficulty from a distant platform (from the future, past or above) gives us a better perspective and global view of a problem and a goal to subconsciously aim for.

In my experience it's the Metaphysical or spiritual aspect of our personality that is able to move about the ether looking for solutions and points/people of reference to learn from in order to climb out of predicaments.

SG
HIP

I happened upon an interesting statement in the popular book "Anatomy Trains" by Tom Myers P. 33 where he talks about depressed people being stuck on the exhale." Thus the person becomes depressed, for whatever reason, will generally express that feeling in somatic form as being stuck on the exhale- they will generally appear to the observer as having a sunken chest, without full excursion upward on the inhale". Then goes on to talk about how the body will take on a depressed lung shape that is hard to overcome. My example of the sharks was simply an attempt to describe something that I had observed, I will try for a better example in the future. Being in the moment is doable by healthy people, moment after moment but not so easy for others.