I have meditated for about ten years (using the Acem system: ). I do it every day, and go to a course once a year, intensive 3-week ones for the last few years. I am a restless kind of person and don’t like meditating, but I’m also disciplined (in this respect!), and it does me good.
So I was shocked to finally discover, on my last course, that meditation can be so much more enjoyable and beneficial if you know what not to eat. And this is not just about being vegetarian. I finally understood why so many others on the courses enjoyed it, while for me it was often a hard slog.
It turns out that, more than meat, alliums (onions, garlic, leeks etc) are the worst.
Roots are also bad, especially dried ones like ginger. And so is paprika powder, peanut butter, eggs, gelatin. Also coffee, tea and alcohol but I don’t drink those anyway.
Of course the right food/drink is vital when you do long meditations, like I did on the courses. But even at home it makes the difference between sitting there hoping the alarm will go off, or sitting there peacefully and happily.
I find it impossible to leave all that stuff out of my menu, especially with my fondness for all the alliums. But now, when I know I’ll have more time to meditate, I keep off the baddies the day before.
What a difference!
I finally enjoy meditation and can even lay off the ginger biscuits as I have a good reason …..
If you want more details about this food and how long it affects you for, just ask me. The system is not based on religion or tradition, but on proper scientific research.
It turns out th difference between sitting there hoping the alarm will go off, or sitting there peacefully
I finally enjoy meditation and can even lay off the ginger biscuits as I have a good reason …..
If you want more details about this food and how long it affects you for, just ask me. The system is not based on religion or tradition, but on proper scientific research.
Our modern culture is in awe of "proper science". It is quite common that scientific observations, perceptions, conclusions, hypothesis, theories and approach change every 6 months..... What is even "proper scientific research"?
Tradition is not some jumbo jumbo....as opposed to proper scientific research.
It so happens in this case that the science and the tradition say the same thing!
However, I agree with what you say about science, especially in my area, which is food. Cholesterol and fat are an example: what they said yesterday is now being overturned. 'Scientific' research is very often driven by commercial interests.
Yesterday I read that coffee is good for you, apparently. "Drink as much as you like! Up to five cups a day ..."
Well, just possibly for some. Everyone is so different. My husband's body needs meat, and one coffee, every day; for me, meat twice a week is best, and definitely no coffee. As you get older, you (usually) find out what suits you, never mind the science.
Follow your feelings! Unless maybe it concerns chocolate, mars bars, biscuits and the like ....
There has never been scientific evidence linking cholesterol and fat. There is nothing to 'overturn'.
I am in the David Wells camp for mediation. At the end of it he always recommends grounding yourself with cake!!!! I think each persons body is different and the most important thing is to learn to listen to your body about what foods are good and bad for it. Somedays I drink nothing but coffee (mainly decaf) Other days I want tea. Somedays I want meat. Others days I don't. I try to have my '5 a day' and always enjoy eating fruit. What causes me problems with meditation is not my body but my mind. But you don't have to sit still to meditate. Writing can be a form of meditation, you can meditate while walking, and I often get lost in my qigong set and it becomes very mindful and meditative. I utilise reiki in my meditations too. Each person will be different in what works for them. The important thing is to find what works for you and to give it a go even if you only manage 5 minutes a day.
I started off with 5 minutes a day, having bought a paperback on the subject. It was a lot better than nothing, and as you see I have progressed over the years!
I guess the reason spicy foods like onion and garlic, are bad for meditation are bad for meditation is because in some way they are distracting you, and meditation is all about keeping your awareness alert.
The recommendation not to eat spicy food, can be found in the Indian spiritual tradition and the Jewish spiritual tradition, so it must be truth. For verification you need two unrelated sources that you can cross-reference. Inventing Lies (or imaginary things) is a creative process, therefore if one source is inventing lies, they can't match with the lies that the other source is inventing - certainly not on the little details.
Relying on only one source of information, without looking for a verification from another unrelated source, is giving blind faith, which is not the path to truth, and that is what we like about science - the seek for truth, though the scientific community, has its own traditions and conventions and beliefs, that are no better than any other traditions, of any other society.
From my experience, there are other things that are bad for meditation, like drinking alcohol, and watching movies - these things are making you distracted.
A while ago, I asked myself, what is the difference between being distracted and being aware?
When someone is in deep meditation or deep hypnosis, and he can't feel any pain, is he distracted or aware? We could say he is fully distracted from his body and fully aware of his inner reality, which makes these terms relative. But I think that meditative awareness means doing what you're doing right now, fully aware. Not speaking one thing, while thinking about another thing. Not doing one thing, while thinking about something else. In short, awareness is to connect between the action and the thought. Never leave the action running on its own, on autopilot, because then you leave an empty vessel for bad energy to possess.
I once heard that in zen, there is a common saying: "When you eat - eat, when you walk - walk."
If that is the meaning of "being in the Now", then could be that being in the now is more then another meditation technique, it is the essence of meditation - building up an unshakable awareness, that stays alert even when you drift into the subconscious mind, while you are sleeping or daydreaming.
What you’re saying is very interesting Daniel.
As to food however, I beg to disagree. It’s not the spicy things that are bad - chilli peppers for instance are fine, but capsicums are not. Nor are onions particularly spicy when they are cooked - and, interestingly, their negative effect lasts longer when they are cooked than when they are eaten raw.
I think with food it is definitely just a physical thing. Why else would carrots or roots in general - especially cooked again - be bad for meditation?
And this is not a ‘belief’: it is my experience and that of my fellow meditators. And believe me, I was sceptical! For many years I thought I was just not very good at meditating, till I found the trouble was in the food.
But there are other things, like watching films or the like, where I tend to agree with you.
And maybe it depends on the type of meditation? When I meditate I sit in a straight chair, and if it goes well, my head sinks onto my chest. If it doesn’t, it doesn’t. Whereas in other meditations a ‘beautiful’ posture matters. Judging by all those annoying photographs of lithe, western, women, sitting in a yoga postition.
About the rest of what you’re saying, I will have to think about it some more. I'm aware of the zen saying you quote. But that is about as far as my awareness goes, unfortunately 😉
Love - thanks! - Annemieke.
For verification you need two unrelated sources that you can cross-reference. Inventing Lies (or imaginary things) is a creative process, therefore if one source is inventing lies, they can't match with the lies that the other source is inventing - certainly not on the little details.
Not everything is either truth or lie. Two peoples/religions can come to the same conclusion by many ways.
When someone is in deep meditation or deep hypnosis, and he can't feel any pain, is he distracted or aware?
When I meditate well, I notice things (like noise, as long as it is not too frequent) but it seems like I observe them from a distance. It feels like I am flying.
And when I can't meditate well, I feel tethered to the earth. Unfortunately, physical discomfort has that effect. It would be nice to not notice it at all! But I do, and it holds me down. That is one of the main problems for me at the moment.
I've seen onion and garlic and spicy food on the Jewish tradition, and garlic in the Hindu tradition.
Crowan, I agree that two peoples/religions can come to the same conclusions by many ways, and they can even come to complementary conclusions, even if they are not the same, but if they reach contradictory conclusions, they can't both be right. Therefore if you seek the truth, look at where they are pointing to the same direction, not at where they differ.
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I've seen onion and garlic and spicy food on the Jewish tradition, and garlic in the Hindu tradition.
Crowan, I agree that two peoples/religions can come to the same conclusions by many ways, and they can even come to complementary conclusions, even if they are not the same, but if they reach contradictory conclusions, they can't both be right. Therefore if you seek the truth, look at where they are pointing to the same direction, not at where they differ.
Where they point in the same direction, they could both be pointing in a direction that (you or I could consider) is not truth.
I'm not saying here that everything is relative - I agree that there are certain truths. But, mostly, there is no way for us, with a human perspective, to understand what these are. Besides, in what way are two spiritual paths 'unrelated'?
One source of information can be either believed or not, but you can't prove or disprove a source of information, from within itself. Only if you have another source of information, you can cross-reference between the two sources, and verify some of the information you get from one source, if it echoes from the other source as well. on one condition - that the two sources are not coordinated in some way. If they are not coordinated, there is no way they can come up with the same story, with all its little details, by chance. It has to be a true story, that they both have witnessed.
Very simple. No need to complicate things. here you have a tool to distinguish between true and false. Unless you believe blindly that there is no truth, or that we can't know it, or that it is relative. If that is what you belief in, because many people whom you consider wise, have said it, then nothing I will say will make you understand.
Very simple. No need to complicate things. Here you have a tool to distinguish between true and false.
No need to complicate things at all! The food rules I am talking about: alliums (esp. cooked), meat, fish, roots, eggs and a few minor things (like peanuts, capsicums) I have checked for myself. I meditate heaps better if I haven't had those for the desired length of time - from a few hours for eggs, to 48 hours for garlic. It's not too difficult for I meditate before breakfast, so I can have even garlic, if raw, for my breakfast the day before.
Even your personal experience (which people tend to be so sure of) is just one source of information. For instance, how do you know that the effects of onion and garlic you are describing, is not some kind of a personal allergy you have for onion and garlic?
Haha! Personal allergy to garlic! I love (onions and) garlic and have eaten a clove every day for decades. Maybe that's why some people have trouble with me 😉
I know one can easily imagine things, and believe ideas are rational when they aren't. There are endless ways in which you can fool yourself, and I do, like everyone else.
But I honestly think my experience with food and meditation is as close to rational as you can get it.
You're right, but my point was: if you want to know for sure there is a linkage between eating onion and garlic and the success of the next meditation session, you need check out if the same thing happens to other people.
And I wanted to bring to your attention some reference from different spiritual traditions, that seem to say the same.
This idea of what I can and can't eat to have a good deep meditation (it's very noticeable if I do an hour) comes from ACEM, the organisation where I learned meditating
They are non-religious, take a scientific approach, and have actually done proper research into this food thing. See . I leave the research to them, follow their advise, and have fared very well that way. Have been doing it for over ten years.
one problem I have with not eating onion and garlic for the sake of meditation is: What about the health benefits of these vegetables?
I don't drink wine as I used to, but once in a while I take a glass of wine, because it strengthens the heart.
Garlic I can eat once a week. But I'm used to eating a slice of bread with tomato and onion, every morning, and it is a very healthy combination.
What would you do in my place? give away the health benefits for the sake of meditation?
Most of the benefits of onions can be found in other vegetables, can't they? Are there other alliums that you can eat - leeks, chives, some of the perennials like Babington's leeks? I also suspect that the older, wilder forms are possibly healthier (or at least as healthy) as the hyper-cultivated onions that we generally grow/buy.
I guess you're right, I'll have to find substitutes.
I think everything in moderation is the key. My master explained it to me that some foods are very tamasic (inertia), rajasik (excite the senses) whilst other are satvic. Hope I've got the spelling of these right. Our diets should be more Satvic but he explained that some people completely abstain from rajasik foods like onions, chilli's etc and close observation you will some of those people are quite dull like. For meditation that's going to cause problems too. That's why I think a balance is healthy.
What would you do in my place? give away the health benefits for the sake of meditation?
If you know what you're doing, it is not strict or difficult at all.
Roughly, it goes as follows:
If you have any allium, even garlic, raw with breakfast, it won't affect your next morning's meditation. Chives you can even eat with your evening meal. Cooked alliums have unfortunately a longer lasting effect.
As for meat, lamb is better than beef or pork, and chicken even better. I can eat lamb (not loads) for lunch and it does not bother my meditation the next morning.
You can eat raw roots even with your evening meal if you want to meditate in the morning. The effect of cooked roots lasts longer: ab. 8 hours, and dried roots like ginger and curry longer still. So you have to be careful with spices, but chillis or pepper are always fine!
If you have the details and work it out, it gets easy after a while and you don't have to abstain from anything. And of course, whenever it suits you, you can drop it altogether for a while, there is nothing wrong with that.
See below for the exact details given to me by the Acem organisation. These are the ones I follow and they work.
Love, Annemieke.
Sorry, here is the complete file with info about drinks.
Thanks, very helpful
And just to add another strand to this....the effect you notice could be psychological. You are expecting your meditation to be improved because you abstain from, or consume, a certain food......so by a placebo effect it is.
Ha! No, sorry. My shock discovery came after I had been to many courses and always thought I was not very good at meditating.
Then I happened to hear that dried roots, amongst other stuff, were bad. The courses, of course, served food without ginger and the like. However, I had always brought some of my favourite sugarless ginger biscuits as a sort of comfort food. When I stopped having those, the meditation improved impressively ......
There were many more things like that, which convinced my sceptical mind. There is a point where, though sceptical, and aware of these psychological effects, you have to give in to science I'm afraid.
Acem meditation was started about 50 years ago by university students and still an awful lot of practitioners are medical professors, doctors and the like. They are not gurus or indeed religious at all and have done their research.
Sorry Sally, I did not mean to be critical of your message. You are quite right about the psychological effects of such things. I was just trying to explain that I don't think this is the case here.