I've been reading up about and exploring the 'law of attraction' (or the other various names attributed to it) since I became ill several years ago.
There's still a few anomolies for me, though... I was wondereing what other people's thoughts and experiences were who have an interest in this subject.
So, in very recent years, I can see with absolute clarity where my beliefs have created my reality, both negatively and positively. For example, getting a place at an extremely competetive uni, leaving uni and walking straight into a job working on a kids' tv show. Then 'blocking' new jobs after getting pregnant, probably because I didn't really want them. More recently, I've been startled by the accuracy of what I wanted to recieve e.g. I wanted £500 and got a tax rebate of £520. I thought that since it worked well, I'd ask for another £500 and my nan wrote me a cheque for that amount as a wedding gift. So there's just a few examples of when I see it happening.
But there's situations that I just don't get... In the final weeks of pregnancy last year, I was listening to a hypnosis CD every day to prepare myself for the birth. I felt ready for it, I'd 'rehearsed' it in my mind, so my shock was beyond monumental when I was taken in for an emergency caesarean. I can't work out how I attracted that to myself...? It had never even entered my head for one single millionth of a second that I would ever have a c-section. That's definitely something that happens to other people!!
Plus there's the argument of how a child would attract abuse to themselves... I have real difficulty letting myself believe in it 100%...
So what's going on in the universe? What's really happening here? Are we kidding ourselves?
Are some things set out as 'fate' for us, whilst everything else is variable? Edited to add question: are some things random or does everything have a cause?
Hi Daz, no it is quite the reverse, our core way of being is entirely set up by self, we have the freedom to choose what we wish to form into a core belief and what we choose to disregard, most of this is established as we grow up and look to the world around us for direction.
Unfortunately we choose to forget the many times when we where belittled or things did not go as we expected them to and choose to spit our dummies out, whilst unwittingly making statements to self, that this is so and it will remain so always.
The reality is that we have utilised our free will to choose to disempower ourselves from achieving something, so that we can utilise our free will to choose to experience what it is like to struggle. 😉
Ah I see things differently Paul as in our energy/vibration dictates our life experiences .
The soul level of jesus christ for example could not have the understandings and vision as he had without vibrating at a particular frequency within self .
Not everyone can have the same realizations as Jesus had unless their energy permits .
Therefore one has no choice in the matter, tis just simply a reflection of where they are at .
Evolvement happens, change happens, vibrations and frequencies rise and become finer ..
One cannot choose within the moment to create something within their life that does not resonate with their individual essence .
x daz x
Hi Daz
Ah I see things differently Paul as in our energy/vibration dictates our life experiences .
Assuming that we have an energy/vibration, then what or who do you think sets it up?
The soul level of jesus christ for example could not have the understandings and vision as he had without vibrating at a particular frequency within self .
Not everyone can have the same realizations as Jesus had unless their energy permits .
No two people are the same, even identical twins think differently, so they will react differently to different situation and often have completely different life experiences to each other, we can only fully experience our own life experience as it unfolds for us.
Therefore one has no choice in the matter, tis just simply a reflection of where they are at .
Evolvement happens, change happens, vibrations and frequencies rise and become finer ..
One cannot choose within the moment to create something within their life that does not resonate with their individual essence .
We are what we perceive ourselves to be, nothing more or less, the way that we perceive ourselves is under the direction of our core way of being that we have set up for ourselves, our beliefs might be strong and judgemental beliefs are more firmly entrenched in our being, but we chose to embrace them and they are changeable, but first we need to accept that we can change.
There are only two absolutes for a human being, the first is that we are physically born on this planet and the other is that we will physically die once our life experience finishes on this planet, what unfolds between these two absolutes is adaptable.
Hi Daz
Assuming that we have an energy/vibration, then what or who do you think sets it up?
Hi Paul .
Not sure on what you mean by 'set up' but I think you know my understandings of that the self is what you are within mind . There is only self that is of the mind .
No two people are the same, even identical twins think differently, so they will react differently to different situation and often have completely different life experiences to each other, we can only fully experience our own life experience as it unfolds for us.
I agree in that we are individual and in that respect there is difference, but there is sameness in difference . Individual frequency / vibration will result in how one understands / perceives life, self and the relationship had with others . In that respect two Individuals that are similar in vibrational frequency will share a similar perception although their experiences my differ considerably . I suppose the teachings of all the saints, ascended masters, Gurus, etc illustrate a similar flavour due to their similar understandings had through their unique life experiences .
We are what we perceive ourselves to be, nothing more or less, the way that we perceive ourselves is under the direction of our core way of being that we have set up for ourselves, our beliefs might be strong and judgemental beliefs are more firmly entrenched in our being, but we chose to embrace them and they are changeable, but first we need to accept that we can change.
I would say similar to the ugly duckling and the swan story where the swan thought it was an ugly duckling . So in that respect I agree that we are what we perceive ourselves to be but on the otherhand the swan was not what it thought it's self to be . In a sense we are not what we perceive ourselves to be in any shape or form .
There are only two absolutes for a human being, the first is that we are physically born on this planet and the other is that we will physically die once our life experience finishes on this planet, what unfolds between these two absolutes is adaptable.
It could be said that the experience was necessary for the swan to experience and the swan had no choice other than to experience what was needed . At a point the selfish man will experience selflessness not because he chooses to but because the experience is the course of action required . . Some say it balances the books, some say thats what evolution is all about .
Once you have tasted honey you are no longer drawn to marmite . In my understandings there seems to be a pull or a drawing that occurs within life, It can be related to the flow ..
x daz x
HI Daz
Hi Paul .
Not sure on what you mean by 'set up' but I think you know my understandings of that the self is what you are within mind . There is only self that is of the mind .
Yes that is my understanding, no one can make anyone anything they do not choose to be, we are creatures of our own design. 🙂
I agree in that we are individual and in that respect there is difference, but there is sameness in difference . Individual frequency / vibration will result in how one understands / perceives life, self and the relationship had with others . In that respect two Individuals that are similar in vibrational frequency will share a similar perception although their experiences my differ considerably . I suppose the teachings of all the saints, ascended masters, Gurus, etc illustrate a similar flavour due to their similar understandings had through their unique life experiences .
Let me rephrase that to fit in with my understanding, our general state of health and wellbeing is a direct reflection of our underlying state of consciousness, our state of consciousness directly effects the type of life force power that our life force generators generate, so one person who is in expression of inner divisional conflicts, will generate the correct form of life force power to reflect the divisional conflict and their physical body will adapt to suit the environment that the life force power is providing, and someone who is expressing wholeness will generate the correct type of life force power to reflect wholeness etc.
So whilst everyone who is in expression of a certain core way of being, will be generating similar life force power, it will still be generated in such a way to suit the individuals thought patterns and beliefs, which will all be slightly different to each other.
Now if we choose to perceive the life force power in terms of frequency, then that is what we are going to perceive, if we choose to perceive it by colour, then again that is what we are going to perceive, the reality is that it is neither colour or frequency, it is simply the life force power of consciousness that we all attempt to get a handle on. 🙂
I would say similar to the ugly duckling and the swan story where the swan thought it was an ugly duckling . So in that respect I agree that we are what we perceive ourselves to be but on the other hand the swan was not what it thought it's self to be . In a sense we are not what we perceive ourselves to be in any shape or form .
But we are stuck with the reality of this physical existence as it unfolds within the Now or current moment, what we are outside of this experience is irrelevant to the Now experience that we are currently experiencing, but you are right that we are what we perceive ourselves to be and our reality will reflect those perceptions, so if we perceive that we are not worthy, then our reality will become that which will empower us to experience unworthiness, if we perceive that we need to suffer, then our reality will will become that which will empower us to experience suffering, etc.
It could be said that the experience was necessary for the swan to experience and the swan had no choice other than to experience what was needed . At a point the selfish man will experience selflessness not because he chooses to but because the experience is the course of action required . . Some say it balances the books, some say thats what evolution is all about .
Once you have tasted honey you are no longer drawn to marmite . In my understandings there seems to be a pull or a drawing that occurs within life, It can be related to the flow ..
x daz x
Whatever experience unfolds for us is nothing more than an experience, all life experiences are valid, irrespective of the length or content, an experience is an experience, it is when we exercise our free will to choose to perceive the experience outside of the experience that we get creative and adapt our life experience to suit our own chosen perceptions, but the experience always remains neutral. 🙂
Once you have tasted honey you are no longer drawn to marmite . In my understandings there seems to be a pull or a drawing that occurs within life, It can be related to the flow ..
Where do those of us who like both honey and Marmite leave this analogy? I thought I was understanding you up to this point!
Let me rephrase that to fit in with my understanding, our general state of health and wellbeing is a direct reflection of our underlying state of consciousness, our state of consciousness directly effects the type of life force power that our life force generators generate, so one person who is in expression of inner divisional conflicts, will generate the correct form of life force power to reflect the divisional conflict and their physical body will adapt to suit the environment that the life force power is providing, and someone who is expressing wholeness will generate the correct type of life force power to reflect wholeness etc.
Hi Paul .
I will only reply to this part of your post for now if you don't mind as I am conscious of keeping posts to a minimum as I can quite easily talk for britain at times .
I agree that when you say our general state of health and well being is a direct reflection of our underlying state of consciousness . With that in mind one has no choice other than to be in reflection of that . Everything is a result of something else ... The result of that something else will be reflected within mind or within consciousness . A selfish man will reflect selfishness and will not be in reflection of a selfless man even if he chooses to do so .
One is governed by their own process and whilst one is aware of a self that is part of an evolutionary process one cannot remove themselves from it by choice or by having freewill .
x daz x
Where do those of us who like both honey and Marmite leave this analogy? I thought I was understanding you up to this point!
There will be a time where one will have one toe in the water and one foot out of the water . In this respect one has a foothold in both worlds . That of the material (for example) and one of the spirit .
If marmite was the material world and honey the spiritual world then at a point one will be drawn to the spirit aspect . One will not have a choice in the matter it will simply be a transition of sorts because of one's energy will change .
The finer one's energy the less one perceives the material, tis a simple reflection and not a matter of choice .
x daz x
If marmite was the material world and honey the spiritual world then at a point one will be drawn to the spirit aspect . One will not have a choice in the matter it will simply be a transition of sorts because of one's energy will change .
Right. Thanks.:)
I disagree, but at least I understand what you were getting at.
Right. Thanks.:)
I disagree, but at least I understand what you were getting at.
I respect your unique perspective on the matter . Just a thought/question to put to you Crowan with no pressure to reply . lol .
Do you have the freewill or the choice to end your awareness of self . The self that is . I am not speaking of ending one's existence or ending one's physical experience
I am speaking of successfully removing / dissolving your awareness of 'the I am' .
If you or anyone cannot execute this transition now 'then why can't they'.
I see a process of being in awareness of the self to then reach a point of an awareness of what you are beyond self or beyond mind .
One cannot choose to reach that point by choice alone or by having freewill to entertain such a transition .
Would love to hear your thoughts on that if you have the time ..
x daz x
Hi Paul .
I will only reply to this part of your post for now if you don't mind as I am conscious of keeping posts to a minimum as I can quite easily talk for britain at times .
I agree that when you say our general state of health and well being is a direct reflection of our underlying state of consciousness . With that in mind one has no choice other than to be in reflection of that . Everything is a result of something else ... The result of that something else will be reflected within mind or within consciousness . A selfish man will reflect selfishness and will not be in reflection of a selfless man even if he chooses to do so .
One is governed by their own process and whilst one is aware of a self that is part of an evolutionary process one cannot remove themselves from it by choice or by having freewill .
x daz x
People always reflect themselves as they are in the Now or current moment of time, judging someone to be something in isolation of the fullness of self, will never give a full image of the whole being.
If people choose to judge themselves as needing to undergoing an evolutionary process, then this indicates a dissatisfaction with what they are currently creating for self, it was free will that allowed the perception of dissatisfaction with self to be created by them within the fullness of self, only they can choose to exercise their free will to choose to change their minds to accept self as a complete being within the fullness of self.
It all comes down to choice, if we choose to believe that we can't, then we wont until we change our minds and decide we can. 🙂
NICE_1 - Are you a determinist by any chance? You sound like one.
We are not fixed, static beings but capable of constant change. Are you the same person you were 10/20 years ago? I doubt it. We all make choices constantly....how can you not acknowledge that?
I am a perfect example of choice and freewill being real. As mentioned, I used to have a fatalistic mindset but allowed the possibility of freewill having merit. i.e. possibly being real. Opening up my mind to this experience was a major turning point in my life and I have never looked back. Direct experience eclipses any debate!
People always reflect themselves as they are in the Now or current moment of time, judging someone to be something in isolation of the fullness of self, will never give a full image of the whole being.
If people choose to judge themselves as needing to undergoing an evolutionary process, then this indicates a dissatisfaction with what they are currently creating for self, it was free will that allowed the perception of dissatisfaction with self to be created by them within the fullness of self, only they can choose to exercise their free will to choose to change their minds to accept self as a complete being within the fullness of self.
It all comes down to choice, if we choose to believe that we can't, then we wont until we change our minds and decide we can. 🙂
Thanks for your thoughts again paul . I understand where you are coming from but perceive differently ..
One cannot choose to be empathic for example you either are or not . What dictates such sensitivity will reflect within their energies and their levels of awareness of others sufferings .
One can only be aware of what they are aware of in the moment, and what they are aware of in the moment is not down to choice . It is down to where they are at energetically speaking ..
If everyone chooses to be happy in the moment then everyone would be happy . If everyone that practices meditation chooses to realize what they are, then everyone that meditates will self realize .
It doesn't work like that .
In order to have choice .. one's choices must be attainable otherwise the choice was never a viable choice .
Your welcome to take at stab also at the questions I put to crowan and amy .
Do you have the freewill or the choice to end your awareness of self . The self that is . I am not speaking of ending one's existence or ending one's physical experience
x daz x
NICE_1 - Are you a determinist by any chance? You sound like one.
We are not fixed, static beings but capable of constant change. Are you the same person you were 10/20 years ago? I doubt it. We all make choices constantly....how can you not acknowledge that?
I am a perfect example of choice and freewill being real. As mentioned, I used to have a fatalistic mindset but allowed the possibility of freewill having merit. i.e. possibly being real. Opening up my mind to this experience was a major turning point in my life and I have never looked back. Direct experience eclipses any debate!
We are not consciously aware nor in control of what presents it's self within life likened to that of a menu prior to arriving at a restuarant . You then choose from what's on the menu . You cannot choose fish if fish is off the menu .
Menu's change as does life, but what does not change is one's ability to choose something that isn't attainable .
Total choice and total freewill within our life experience is likend to that analogy where everything must be present on the menu in order to exercise freewill and choice .
You are welcome to take a stab at answering my question/s put to crowan .
Do you have the freewill or the choice to end your awareness of self . The self that is . I am not speaking of ending one's existence or ending one's physical experience
x daz x
We are not consciously aware nor in control of what presents it's self within life likened to that of a menu prior to arriving at a restuarant . You then choose from what's on the menu . You cannot choose fish if fish is off the menu .
Menu's change as does life, but what does not change is one's ability to choose something that isn't attainable .
Total choice and total freewill within our life experience is likend to that analogy where everything must be present on the menu in order to exercise freewill and choice .
You are welcome to take a stab at answering my question/s put to crowan .
Do you have the freewill or the choice to end your awareness of self . The self that is . I am not speaking of ending one's existence or ending one's physical experience
x daz x
[COLOR="Green"]It's clear that you have failed to grasp how my transformation directly contradicts your thinking here. Did you understand what it entailed? What is on the menu is not a good analogy here. Opening up the mind enables all kinds of previously unforeseen possibilities. I am living proof of that experience.
Hi Daz
Thanks for your thoughts again paul . I understand where you are coming from but perceive differently ..
I have noticed that myself. 🙂
One cannot choose to be empathic for example you either are or not . What dictates such sensitivity will reflect within their energies and their levels of awareness of others sufferings .
Sorry but that is a complete misconception IMO, empathy is the ability that everyone has, that allows them to tune into someone else and see how they are feeling, it is not just to do with identifying suffering, though that is what it is often depicted as.
This is something that everyone has, we are all one, if people do not know how to utilise this inbuilt sense then it can be taught like healing or anything else which we all have the ability to do. But if people utilise their free will to choose to create distractions and divisional inner conflicts within the fullness of self, then they probably will not be aware of anything outside of their own internal arguments.
One can only be aware of what they are aware of in the moment, and what they are aware of in the moment is not down to choice . It is down to where they are at energetically speaking ..
Yes it is, if people have chosen to create inner divisional conflicts within the fullness of self, then they have chosen to disempower themselves from being aware of what they are outside of the inner disharmony that is disrupting their wholeness, this is a choice, if they choose to become aware of what they are in the Now, then they need to choose to heal the inner disharmony so that they can focus upon self without distraction, that is also a choice.
If everyone chooses to be happy in the moment then everyone would be happy . If everyone that practices meditation chooses to realize what they are, then everyone that meditates will self realize .
It doesn't work like that .
In order to have choice .. one's choices must be attainable otherwise the choice was never a viable choice .
That is quite right, we can only make choices that will directly influence our chosen core way of being, when we take personal responsibility for what we are and the choices that we choose to make, or else we find ourselves deciding to be happy and our chosen core way of being will take precedent and make us feel what we had previously dictated we should feel, so in place of happiness, we feel sad or angry etc. 🙂
In order for someone to make a choice, they have to firstly realise that they have a choice, then they have to be prepared to accept personal responsibility for the choice so that they can become the choice, believing that their choice is not available to us or we are not good enough to make that choice, is a personal choice which will disempower us from being able to do whatever we would choose to do or be. 🙂
You are welcome to take a stab at answering my question/s put to crowan .
Do you have the freewill or the choice to end your awareness of self . The self that is . I am not speaking of ending one's existence or ending one's physical experience
x daz x
No, any creature of consciousness that wills itself into existence is conscious, they might choose to distract themselves from acknowledging self or aspects of self whilst they are here (which many people choose to do), but the awareness that consciousness is, will always be there until they choose to will themselves out of existence and will no longer be consciously aware of anything (everything begins and ends with a thought). 😉
[COLOR="Green"]It's clear that you have failed to grasp how my transformation directly contradicts your thinking here. Did you understand what it entailed? What is on the menu is not a good analogy here. Opening up the mind enables all kinds of previously unforeseen possibilities. I am living proof of that experience.
Amy ... individuals mind sets change throughout their entire existence and as a result of such one is in experience of it .. When something happens and arises in mind whatever that maybe will cause a responce / reaction / non reaction / non response .
Are you in control of what arises in mind in order to make a so called choice based on what arises .
Can you answer my question put to you .. that exercises your freewill and choice, the freewill and choice that you say you have .
Do you have the freewill or the choice to end your awareness of self . The self that is . I am not speaking of ending one's existence or ending one's physical experience
For the record I speak of my understanding through direct experience of transcending various mind sets that are self related also .
x daz x
That is quite right, we can only make choices that will directly influence our chosen core way of being, when we take personal responsibility for what we are and the choices that we choose to make, or else we find ourselves deciding to be happy and our chosen core way of being will take precedent and make us feel what we had previously dictated we should feel, so in place of happiness, we feel sad or angry etc. 🙂
This is partly what you spoke of previously and it is what I agreed with .
Freewill and choice like I said is unlimited and unconditioned . If one cannot choose something experiential in nature that is not inline or reflective of the core being then they do not have freewill and unlimited and unconditioned choice .
No, any creature of consciousness that wills itself into existence is conscious, they might choose to distract themselves from acknowledging self or aspects of self whilst they are here (which many people choose to do), but the awareness that consciousness is, will always be there until they choose to will themselves out of existence and will no longer be consciously aware of anything (everything begins and ends with a thought). 😉
If one can will themselves into consciousness then one can will themselves out of consciousness .
Its not one way traffic, but it appears that one cannot will themselves out of the awareness of self just by freewill and choice alone .
x daz x
Hi Daz
I have noticed that myself. 🙂
)
Another point to raise Paul in regards to your evaluation made is that you didn't consciously choose your conclusion / response .
What arises within mind for you will resonate with your reflective understandings that are related through your self awareness .
You didn't have the choice to perceive in the way other than you did .
It was an automated response . Not a response built on the foundation of choice .
Otherwise there could be a 50/50 chance of you agreeing with me .
x daz x
Amy ... individuals mind sets change throughout their entire existence and as a result of such one is in experience of it .. When something happens and arises in mind whatever that maybe will cause a responce / reaction / non reaction / non response .
Are you in control of what arises in mind in order to make a so called choice based on what arises .
Can you answer my question put to you .. that exercises your freewill and choice, the freewill and choice that you say you have .
x daz x
[COLOR="Green"]You acknowledge that we can change via responding to what arises in our mind but don't concede that this involves choice! Very weird/puzzling.
To answer your question (in bold): We don't need to be in control of what arises in our mind. We can make a choice regarding how to modify/change that reaction once it is presented to ourself. Eventually, with practise, this change will be hardwired and become conditioned i.e. the default setting in what arises in the mind. Indeed, this is how habits are broken.
This is partly what you spoke of previously and it is what I agreed with .
Freewill and choice like I said is unlimited and unconditioned . If one cannot choose something experiential in nature that is not inline or reflective of the core being then they do not have freewill and unlimited and unconditioned choice .
We arrive here with a blank core way of being, the only things that get placed within the core way of being that makes us what we are, are our freedom to choose what we perceive ourselves to be and the things that we choose to believe in relation to self, whatever is in the core way of being can be changed, we do this all of the time as long as someone is happy to change what they have already built for themselves. 🙂
If one can will themselves into consciousness then one can will themselves out of consciousness .
Its not one way traffic, but it appears that one cannot will themselves out of the awareness of self just by freewill and choice alone .
That is what I said, if you choose to cut your eyes out of your head, then you will lose the ability to see, or you could create the illusion by choosing to wear dark sunglasses in a dimly lit area. Distracting self which is a personal choice that we are all free to make does the same thing to our self awareness as the dark glasses do in a dimly lit area, but it is still an illusion for within consciousness there is only awareness, nothing more. :confused:
Another point to raise Paul in regards to your evaluation made is that you didn't consciously choose your conclusion / response .
What arises within mind for you will resonate with your reflective understandings that are related through your self awareness .
You didn't have the choice to perceive in the way other than you did .
It was an automated response . Not a response built on the foundation of choice .
Otherwise there could be a 50/50 chance of you agreeing with me .
No I thought about it and composed a response to your post out of my current understanding, there was nothing automatic about it, if I had answered the same post 10 years ago then I would have replied in a completely different way, because my conceptual understanding and way of being was completely different to what it is now.
It was my choice to expand my awareness, I was not forced to do anything, it was my choice to reformulate my understanding, again I was not forced to do anything, I am open to expand and change further as a personal choice, if you ask me the same question in 10 years time, you will probably get a different response to the one you got today. 😉
Would you have been posing the same questions 10 or 20 years ago, or when you were 5 years old???
[COLOR="Green"]You acknowledge that we can change via responding to what arises in our mind but don't concede that this involves choice! Very weird/puzzling.
If we do not choose what arises with mind then how do you know that you are choosing how you react to what arises . What arises and unfolds and what results in are not separate entities . A selfish man has an opportunity to choose between himself and another . A selfish man chooses himself . Its not really a choice is it . When something happens within mind the selfish mans awareness changes and only then will if the opportunity arise put another before himself . This also will at a point not contain choice .
Similar to what paul says if I understanding him correctly is that one does not have a choice in anything that is not in reflection of their core being . The result of such so called choices will not contain anything that is not inline with their core being also . One does not choose their core being . .
To answer your question (in bold): We don't need to be in control of what arises in our mind. We can make a choice regarding how to modify/change that reaction once it is presented to ourself. Eventually, with practise, this change will be hardwired and become conditioned i.e. the default setting in what arises in the mind. Indeed, this is how habits are broken.
If we don't need to be in control of what arises, then it could be safe to say that one is not in control of choices seemingly made . What arises in mind is not separate from what unfolds within mind . One only believes that they are choosing to do this and do that because they are aware of the process of what arises and what results .
I will repeat the question put to you
Do you have the freewill or the choice to end your awareness of self . The self that is . I am not speaking of ending one's existence or ending one's physical experience
x daz x
If we do not choose what arises with mind then how do you know that you are choosing how you react to what arises . What arises and unfolds and what results in are not separate entities . A selfish man has an opportunity to choose between himself and another . A selfish man chooses himself . Its not really a choice is it . When something happens within mind the selfish mans awareness changes and only then will if the opportunity arise put another before himself . This also will at a point not contain choice .
[COLOR="DarkGreen"]How do you know you are choosing how to react to what arises? We have awareness, consciousness, a brain that discerns what is occurring. A selfish man can change...many do. We are not fixed, static entities. You previously acknowledged change but - for some reason - have difficulty in admitting choice in this process.
Let's work on a clear example (the one I gave on page 2):-
For instance, I tended to get irritated when I just miss a bus. Kneejerk/automatic reaction i.e. what arises in the mind. I have learnt to turn this around and not give myself a hard time. Choice! Freewill! With awareness, if I catch my reaction early enough (as it is about to be triggered), then I have more access to the steering wheel in terms of changing gear. Often I just change tactics/distraction and focus on something else.
Similar to what paul says if I understanding him correctly is that one does not have a choice in anything that is not in reflection of their core being . The result of such so called choices will not contain anything that is not inline with their core being also . One does not choose their core being . .
[COLOR="DarkGreen"]No, Paul said our core being allows freedom to choose.
If we don't need to be in control of what arises, then it could be safe to say that one is not in control of choices seemingly made . What arises in mind is not separate from what unfolds within mind . One only believes that they are choosing to do this and do that because they are aware of the process of what arises and what results .
[COLOR="DarkGreen"]Not being in control of what arises has no direct bearing on what we do once the subject comes to our awareness. THEN we have choice, i.e. can make a decision as to whether or not to act on this. You are throwing the baby out with the bathwater, i.e. setting a precedent where none exists.I will repeat the question put to you
Do you have the freewill or the choice to end your awareness of self . The self that is . I am not speaking of ending one's existence or ending one's physical experience
x daz x
[COLOR="DarkGreen"]To be conscious is to be aware of self. I don't understand what you're getting at here. Can you rephrase it or expound upon your meaning?
Sorry not to have replied sooner - I'm busy packing a large home into small boxes!:)
It all comes down to choice, if we choose to believe that we can't, then we wont until we change our minds and decide we can.
Thus going in ever decreasing circles. Do you see a situation, then, where a person has accepted as their core belief that they can’t change and therefore never being able to change?
On the whole, I would say that those core beliefs can be altered after death – although maybe not for everyone - , but I know that you don’t accept individual souls continuing in the way that I do.
A lot of headway towards accepting change can be made in this life using soul retrieval – in that the part of the soul that is able to change can be brought back – but the person has to already have accepted that change is possible in order to come to have the soul retrieval.
Do you have the freewill or the choice to end your awareness of self . The self that is . I am not speaking of ending one's existence or ending one's physical experience
I agree that our choices have to be within the attainable. I also see that sometimes our attainable choices are limited by circumstances beyond our control. It would be possible for a soul (okay – I know that’s a whole other argument – but I needed a word that made it clear that I’m talking about more than this particular lifetime) to choose not to use its ‘awareness of self’ to the extent that this atrophied. This doesn’t happen often enough for me to have observed it but, extrapolating from what I have observed, there can be a deliberate giving up of choice.
Okay. You said,
There will be a time where one will have one toe in the water and one foot out of the water . In this respect one has a foothold in both worlds . That of the material (for example) and one of the spirit .
If marmite was the material world and honey the spiritual world then at a point one will be drawn to the spirit aspect . One will not have a choice in the matter it will simply be a transition of sorts because of one's energy will change .
The finer one's energy the less one perceives the material, tis a simple reflection and not a matter of choice .
x daz x
I spend a lot of my time with a foot in either world – that’s practically a definition of a shaman/shamanic practitioner, in many ways. While I am in this life, or indeed in this cycle of lives – incarnate or disincarnate -, that is ongoing. In the next cycle I will be slightly less material*, slightly more spiritual*. (I don’t see this as ‘finer energy’.) However, this ‘progression’ is through choice. Not all souls have chosen a learning path. (I suspect, from many things Paul has said, that he has not.)
*My use of these words ‘spiritual’ and ‘material’ is descriptive only. Please don't read any moral judgement into them.
To be conscious is to be aware of self. I don't understand what you're getting at here. Can you rephrase it or expound upon your meaning?
Many animals - insects for example - are conscious without being self-aware.
Many animals - insects for example - are conscious without being self-aware.
[COLOR="Green"]Yes but we are talking about humanity here.
Yes but we are talking about humanity here.
Are we? I am talking about spirits. These may be incarnate in a human form or not. I agree that there has to be a certain amount of self-awareness in order to decide to incarnate deliberately, but not every spirit does it deliberately.
Are we? I am talking about spirits. These may be incarnate in a human form or not. I agree that there has to be a certain amount of self-awareness in order to decide to incarnate deliberately, but not every spirit does it deliberately.
[COLOR="Green"]I am not interested in debating this side issue. This is a thread about the law of attraction, i.e. involving humans. The current discussion concerns freewill and choice, as you may know....i.e. it's already convoluted without going down even more sideroads.
We arrive here with a blank core way of being, the only things that get placed within the core way of being that makes us what we are, are our freedom to choose what we perceive ourselves to be and the things that we choose to believe in relation to self, whatever is in the core way of being can be changed, we do this all of the time as long as someone is happy to change what they have already built for themselves. 🙂
I can agree Paul in general terms that at a point our core way of being is untainted by any influence of the mind so in that respect one starts to paint a picture in mind that mirrors our perception of self .
I agree at a point and that point will be the moment one is conscious of an individual self that exists and I am not speaking of a point of rebirth, there is freewill and choice . The moment the ball starts rolling however what manifests and unfolds happens beyond the consciousness of the individual . So until that individual becomes aware that their thoughts and actions create an effect an effect that will self create experience for them they will not have a choice in what they have created .
At that point the blank core of being is no longer blank for it has a unique energy signature . You can't erase the signature that accumulates and collectively becomes part of your perception . A perception of our making . So midway through life when one evaluates their perception one cannot choose to perceive in any other way than what they are currently .
They cannot choose no matter how much freewill one supposedly has to perceive differently .
Your evaluation of my perception will always reflect your unique perception and you don't have a choice in that either .
x daz x
[COLOR="DarkGreen"]To be conscious is to be aware of self. I don't understand what you're getting at here. Can you rephrase it or expound upon your meaning?
The irritation that you experience through missing the bus reflects your current energy in the moment . Many would feel the same, many would not, depends on all sorts of things . Something came to mind that allowed you to perceive the bus scenario differently and you responded in line with that different way of thinking . It is possible that many would remain angry about missing the bus till the end of their days and yet they have the same so called choices and freewill as you do .
The only difference is was that something arises in mind for some that instigates change . In the midst of anger one doesn't have a choice other than to be angry in that moment . Something happens that diffuses their anger, something comes to mind . Something came to mind in your respect for being angry at missing the bus . Your perception has changed not through choice, when you out grow a pair of shoes you have no choice other than to change them for a bigger pair .
When you evolve for use of a better word at a point a particular mind set no longer serves you, so out with the old and in with the new .
There is no choice in that .
To expand on your request for further explanation in regards to my question put to you .
The individual self is perceived through your point of awareness . The point of awareness is currently Amy . It can be debated that amy is or isn't what you are but to cut to the chase your point of perception is what I am speaking of . So when I speak of your awareness of self you will/can relate to that point .
What I am suggesting is that through my understandings that choice is something that has to be attainable then I put it to those that believe that they have freewill and choice to end their awareness of self . To transcend that point of awareness beyond any point .
x daz x
Sorry not to have replied sooner - I'm busy packing a large home into small boxes!:)
Thus going in ever decreasing circles. Do you see a situation, then, where a person has accepted as their core belief that they can’t change and therefore never being able to change?
On the whole, I would say that those core beliefs can be altered after death – although maybe not for everyone - , but I know that you don’t accept individual souls continuing in the way that I do.
A lot of headway towards accepting change can be made in this life using soul retrieval – in that the part of the soul that is able to change can be brought back – but the person has to already have accepted that change is possible in order to come to have the soul retrieval.I agree that our choices have to be within the attainable. I also see that sometimes our attainable choices are limited by circumstances beyond our control. It would be possible for a soul (okay – I know that’s a whole other argument – but I needed a word that made it clear that I’m talking about more than this particular lifetime) to choose not to use its ‘awareness of self’ to the extent that this atrophied. This doesn’t happen often enough for me to have observed it but, extrapolating from what I have observed, there can be a deliberate giving up of choice.
Okay. You said,
I spend a lot of my time with a foot in either world – that’s practically a definition of a shaman/shamanic practitioner, in many ways. While I am in this life, or indeed in this cycle of lives – incarnate or disincarnate -, that is ongoing. In the next cycle I will be slightly less material*, slightly more spiritual*. (I don’t see this as ‘finer energy’.) However, this ‘progression’ is through choice. Not all souls have chosen a learning path. (I suspect, from many things Paul has said, that he has not.)
*My use of these words ‘spiritual’ and ‘material’ is descriptive only. Please don't read any moral judgement into them.
Thanks for taking the time crowan during your busy packing schedule . .
Let me put it this way as I can relate to an aspect of my own inner workings . In regards to your shaman way of living/being you were drawn to it in some shape or form at a point within your life .
Your nature or core as paul might say resonated with the way of living and being to that of a shaman . My inner workings / alchemic / self healing methods are the result of my own reflected perception of self and the processes of energy and how such energies flow and create effects upon the mind / body / spirit .
I don't choose to resonate with certain ways of living and being and I would say neither do you or anyone else . If the glove fits, the glove fits . A magnet does not choose to attract certain materials it just does because it is part of it's blueprint .
You spoke of that sometimes our attainable choices are limited by circumstances beyond our control .
I agree that there is much that one is not aware of or seemingly in control of and yet there is only self that is . It does boil down to becoming aware of self and that process seems to be automatic .
x daz x