Postnatel depression

about Shamanism what I've gathered from the HP forums, but...from what I've gathered, if it doesn't work you might be told you: "still have life lessons to learn" (?right, ok).

Only if there is a way forward to learn them, and only after the immediate work – in this case soul retrieval and, possibly, extraction – has been done, and there has been improvement from that. Sometimes life-lessons have to be learned. (For example, there’s only so much doctors can do for persistent coughing if the patient/client insists on continuing to smoke.)

You could be trying different Shamanic healers for ever. But I'm only going by what I've read on HP.
Why not see what your Shaman has to say, if you decide to return and hold them accountable.
If you bought a faulty fridge from one branch of Argos - you would not take the matter up with an entirely different branch, because they would not be equipped with all of the details.
(ditto for the crystal therapist.)

I agree – go back and ask why it didn’t work and what can be done about this. However, if you bought a faulty fridge from Argos you are protected by law. Prior to those laws being passed you could have been given short shrift. There are no such laws governing shamanic practice. There is no recognised training path. There is no professional association. There is no accountability. And the likelihood is that the shamanic practitioner that Hallos went to has little training, because most shamanic practitioners don’t. You, WS, based on the little you’ve picked up here, or you, Hallos, based on your experience you described, could set up as shamanic practitioners. I know some who have, with as little experience.

By coincidence, I am teaching shamanic healing this weekend. It’s part of a three year course and the students are a year into this. I read out to them the following (giving no more details):

Ive had some shamanic healing and there was a little girl trapped in a grave type space and we cleared some fear round that and it seem to help for a while.

Their opinion was “that’s well dodgy.”

Going to a shamanic practitioner without knowing how good they are is not like buying a fridge from Argos. It’s like buying a fridge from a street trader with no guarantees.

Hi Hallos,

You have had some great replies and I am really sorry that the depression has come back with a vengeance. It is a horrific illness, it can be relentless in it's grip and the inertia and despondency it can wreak is debilitating. Motivating yourself to do anything can be difficult and challenging anyone right now is more than likely the last thing you feel like capable of.

Things that have helped me in the past have been..

• Getting a good quality vitamin B complex - there is a health food shop in Goring called Ceres which stocks one which is actually named something to do with mental health.. they will help you in the shop if you ask.
• Rescue remedy.
• The elements!! I don't know if you have a dog but if you do then get up Cissbury Ring or down by the beach, think of it as medicine, but don't beat yourself up if you don't get out and about. Failing that I have a dog you can borrow!:D Try and take each day as it comes. You have already said that you have been getting out regularly.
• The knowledge, that it will pass. It is transient even if it doesn't feel like it.

It sounds as though a large feature is the feeling of overwhelm - everything is too much, too difficult. I have an 8 month old (plus a nearly 5 year old & 8 year old. And 3 cats and a dog. So I do understand it.. my tension manifests in my occiput and neck and at the moment is gripping my head like a vice!:022:

Have you tried reiki? I know it was mentioned earlier in the posts? Do you have a good network of friends or have you shut yourself off (sometimes feels easier)?

I only live in Worthing so if you fancy a dog walk/an offload etc then PM me. We can take the babies out to the beach or something.. We could do some energy work together...

Whatever you decide, good luck and I really really hope it lifts soon x

Hollos,

Me again. If you want to return to any or all of the therapist and hold them accountable - it is up to you. The very act of saying "LOOK NUMPTY! You've not done what I paid you for - NOW WHAT!!" - could well start to make you feel better!

Shamanism, to me - IMO, from the little I've gathered on HP, seems to have many loop holes (as do many things). Second guessing as to whether or not a Shaman - your shaman has had little training or is "well dodgy" is IMO, almost irrelevant and beside the point - jumping ahead of the game ~ presumption.

Shamanism may not be protected by law but that doesn't mean that person isn't accountable for their actions, just on a personal level. If you want to go back, go back (to any or all).

How are you today, btw?

Hello all, and thankyou so much for all your replies. I am very tired today as ive started doing the night feeds after a two day break. my partner did both sat and friday night and although i did sleep i keptd waking when the baby was due a feed. baby sophia is in her own room and we have a baby monitor that listens to there breathing and will click in if she makes a noise. From the very start my partner has done a late night feed then come to bed and left the monitor by me to listen out to.....the problem ive been having is when sophia stirs....i still wake up and then i cant get back to sleep. she dosnt sleep for long periods in the day and so i dont seem to catch up with my missed sleep....then i start to worry about how i will cope looking after her when she cries and me being so tired. Alot of fear has come from her being a very unsettled baby and having reflux and crying for hours and hours....this went on for a good couple of weeks and now im left with this dread feeling she will start to cry again and i just simple cant cope.

with regards to the crystal healer and shamanic healer they are the same person and ive been going to her for years...she was my crystal tutor many years ago. I trust her 100 percent....so im not sure how i will carry on with her and she
did send me a text saying she is sorry im not feeling any better after the treatment..and other stuff.

The other problem i have at the momennt...is that i ask for advice and so many peeps offer different advice and then i have to try and filter out what feels right for me....

i have asked for some counsellng sessions via the doctor and there is like a two month waiting list but im going to drive 30miles tomorw to try and get assessed sooner...but still not sure if i will be seen quicker.
Ive had people say .....take the anti depressants as they will help and others saying they only make u cope and not get to the root cause.
Peeps say hypnotherapy can help in two sessions and others say its like a band aid.

With regards to the shamanic treatment and the little girl..i was getting it was me and i did blow into a stone my problems and then it was cleared and my chakras were smudged and cleared with some kind of water.

My partner is in the process of getting a child minder in and i worry about what that might mean to me .....will it actually help or will it push me away as a mother.

Im managing to eat and sleep and get dressed and i do try and do some house work,,,,but the house still looks a tip. My partner is working on the house at the moment and trying to build rooms in the loft.

with regards to how the depression makes me feel seems to change day by day but i do get this consent sick feeling in my stomach when i think of coping with sophia on my own and if she wakes up in the night and starts to cry and i cant stop her and everyone is alseep....i feel im very alone and i also feel desperate to not feel like i do....like im never going to get better and that i look at my partner and kids and love them so much....but being where i am at the moment is so painful........and that i wish it would just go away.

with regards to how the depression makes me feel seems to change day by day but i do get this consent sick feeling in my stomach when i think of coping with sophia on my own and if she wakes up in the night and starts to cry and i cant stop her and everyone is alseep....i feel im very alone and i also feel desperate to not feel like i do....like im never going to get better and that i look at my partner and kids and love them so much....but being where i am at the moment is so painful........and that i wish it would just go away.

Hi Hallos,

I've been reading your posts whilst you've been going through your difficulties. And for what it's worth - you seems to be doing very well to me :);).

The other problem i have at the momennt...is that i ask for advice and so many peeps offer different advice and then i have to try and filter out what feels right for me....

Here's what I'm thinking; Why not try to NOT asking for any advice:). Don't ask any one advice about anything! If you're anxious (the sick feeling in your stomach) about being able to cope when completely left alone with Sophia:

with regards to how the depression makes me feel seems to change day by day but i do get this consent sick feeling in my stomach when i think of coping with sophia on my own and if she wakes up in the night and starts to cry and i cant stop her and everyone is alseep....i feel im very alone and i also feel desperate to not feel like i do....like im never going to get better and that i look at my partner and kids and love them so much....but being where i am at the moment is so painful........and that i wish it would just go away.

... then not asking for advice would soon prov to your self that you CAN cope, and when you're pat the merely coping stage, that coping can turn to relaxation and enjoyment.

If the just the thought of not being able to turn to anyone, not asking for advice seems over whelming, you could start off with small challenges:

1) "For one hour, I will not ask for advice" - CHECK! DONE! Then after that, give yourself full permission to let loose with the advice asking - don't hold back.

2) "For one and a half hours, I will not ask for advice" - CHECK! DONE! Then again, give yourself full permission to let loose with the advice asking - don't hold back.

You could build up slowly, and notice any feeling of growing strength and trust in yourself and the more positive thoughts that may accompany those positive feeling :).

(...think of this more as a suggestion, rather than advice;) - should you decide to take i.)

Imagine a quite, secure, comfortable room - this is the image that comes to my mind when I think of filtering out confusing advice (no noisy advice coming through the windows or door). A quiet space without unwanted chatter - just you and Sophia.

All the Best.

Hi Hallos,
Just in case you haven't noticed, I've sent you a short PM. Hallos

Hi Hallos,

You have had some great replies and I am really sorry that the depression has come back with a vengeance. It is a horrific illness, it can be relentless in it's grip and the inertia and despondency it can wreak is debilitating. Motivating yourself to do anything can be difficult and challenging anyone right now is more than likely the last thing you feel like capable of.

Things that have helped me in the past have been..

• Getting a good quality vitamin B complex - there is a health food shop in Goring called Ceres which stocks one which is actually named something to do with mental health.. they will help you in the shop if you ask.
• Rescue remedy.
• The elements!! I don't know if you have a dog but if you do then get up Cissbury Ring or down by the beach, think of it as medicine, but don't beat yourself up if you don't get out and about. Failing that I have a dog you can borrow!:D Try and take each day as it comes. You have already said that you have been getting out regularly.
• The knowledge, that it will pass. It is transient even if it doesn't feel like it.

It sounds as though a large feature is the feeling of overwhelm - everything is too much, too difficult. I have an 8 month old (plus a nearly 5 year old & 8 year old. And 3 cats and a dog. So I do understand it.. my tension manifests in my occiput and neck and at the moment is gripping my head like a vice!:022:

Have you tried reiki? I know it was mentioned earlier in the posts? Do you have a good network of friends or have you shut yourself off (sometimes feels easier)?

I only live in Worthing so if you fancy a dog walk/an offload etc then PM me. We can take the babies out to the beach or something.. We could do some energy work together...

Whatever you decide, good luck and I really really hope it lifts soon x

Thankyou so much for your reply. I know the health shop well as i used to see a herbalist there and the staff in the shop do know there stuff. I have made some friends via a yoga group but i dont feel like off loading to them...they are new mums for the first time and i just feel crap telling them about my stuff...when they have lots to get on with. My partner is my friend and hes a man and dosnt really understand about how i feel and just asks me to tell him what i want to feel better. My mum has been great but shes not well and we both ended up crying together the other day which made me realise i shouldnt really off load to her either.
I guess i do need to get out and try and be social 🙂
xxx

With regards to the shamanic treatment and the little girl..i was getting it was me and i did blow into a stone my problems and then it was cleared and my chakras were smudged and cleared with some kind of water.

This is not how a soul retrieval is done. Which means that the little girl and you are still separate. Not advice – just information.

Hi Crowan

Just out of curiosity, you say that Shamans do not fall under the laws of this land, I seem to remember something about the government reenacting a law that directly affects mediums and people who work by communicating with spirits, assuming that it was implemented, then would that law not affect Shamans who deal with spirits the same as a medium who deals with spirits?

Hi Crowan

Just out of curiosity, you say that Shamans do not fall under the laws of this land, I seem to remember something about the government reenacting a law that directly affects mediums and people who work by communicating with spirits, assuming that it was implemented, then would that law not affect Shamans who deal with spirits the same as a medium who deals with spirits?

Ah, I remember that law... it's the one that says that such practitioners have to make it clear that what they are doing is "for entertainment purposes only". Not sure if it ever came into effect though.

All Love and Reiki Hugs

Hi Hallos

I just want to send you some hugs. It is hard to know what to do when people offer you different advice. All I can say is rest as much as possible ( I know it is hard with a baby).Take as much help as you can. The child minder seems a good idea. Even if it is for a couple hours a day. Just so you can rest and hopefully get better.

I can understand what you are saying about whether it will help or push you away as a mother. I can understand why you are thinking and feeling like that. I totally believe going from my experience with pnd. You need to concentrate as much as you can, on getting yourself well,however you do this. Get as much help as you can with Sophia, she will be fine.When you are better, which will happen. I am sure you will be a loving caring parent. So please do not worry.

Can you get someone to do the housework. I would come and help you if I lived nearer.:)

I know it is painful and it will go away. You wont feel like this forever. Hold onto that thought.🙂

Best wishes

Sunrise

Hi Crowan

Just out of curiosity, you say that Shamans do not fall under the laws of this land, I seem to remember something about the government reenacting a law that directly affects mediums and people who work by communicating with spirits, assuming that it was implemented, then would that law not affect Shamans who deal with spirits the same as a medium who deals with spirits?

Possibly. How would you hold someone accountable? (If you look at my continuation of WS's 'buying a fridge' theme, it is still illegal to - knowingly - sell a faulty fridge as a working one. But if you buy it from a street trader, you are unlikely to get your money back.)
There are no accepted routes to learning shamanic healing. There are no professional bodies.

Hi Crowan

I do not know if that law was enacted or not, never mind the content which it would be utilised, but from what I remember, it was directed at the people who profess to work with spirits and guides etc.

Accountability would I think would need to be proven through authenticity, it would not be the person who goes for whatever they receive to prove that it was misleading or fraudulent, they would just have to claim it was a sham or something along those lines, then the practitioner would need to prove that they are what they claim to be!!!!

I do not know if that law was enacted or not, never mind the content which it would be utilised, but from what I remember, it was directed at the people who profess to work with spirits and guides etc.

Accountability would I think would need to be proven through authenticity, it would not be the person who goes for whatever they receive to prove that it was misleading or fraudulent, they would just have to claim it was a sham or something along those lines, then the practitioner would need to prove that they are what they claim to be!!!!

The Act would have meant that “mediums, psychics and healers” would face prosecution if they could not justify their claims. It was to protect against psychics, and others, misleading or coercing ‘consumers’.

What claims have been made? Either by the practitioner who did whatever she did, or by me?

Hi Crowan

What claims have been made? Either by the practitioner who did whatever she did, or by me?

I was not questioning what has been said or not said to this person ( I am not having a go at you or what you do), I was questioning your earlier statement in light of the law that was proposed to make mediums and others that work with spirits more legally accountable!

There are no such laws governing shamanic practice. There is no recognised training path. There is no professional association. There is no accountability.

As for:

The Act would have meant that “mediums, psychics and healers” would face prosecution if they could not justify their claims. It was to protect against psychics, and others, misleading or coercing ‘consumers’.

As I said I am not totally clued up on what was proposed, I think it was mainly aimed at Mediums and tarot readers who claimed that the information was coming from some spirit or other mystical source, so I suppose that if healers were to claim that their healing services was coming from some spirit or spirit guide, then they would also fall under such a law.

But there are lots of healers like myself who do not work with guides and spirits so such a law would not be relevant, I would expect healers like myself who heal from within the fullness of self to fall under the general consumer laws, and be judged upon if our healing service was fit for purpose or not, which should not be a problem for a healer who can heal.

I think it's not relevant to shamanic practitioners because we are not claiming to heal physical ailments. We heal the spiritual problem, of which the physical, mental or emotional problem is a symptom.

I think it's not relevant to shamanic practitioners because we are not claiming to heal physical ailments. We heal the spiritual problem, of which the physical, mental or emotional problem is a symptom.

From what I recall, it's like Paul said, it's up to the practitioner to prove that they can do what they claim to do. It would be relevant to shamanic practitioners, because if you claim you are spiritually healing someone and they claim that you've done nothing, it would be up to you to prove you've done it. That's why there was a lot of discussion about it at the time, and why people were starting to have to use the "for entertainment purposes only" angle to cover themselves.

Anyway, I think the thread is going somewhat off-topic, so perhaps best this angle of the discussion if left now or taken up on a new thread if desired, and we focus more on our help and support for Hallos. 😉

All Love and Reiki Hugs

Hello, I just wanted to share with you how i am doing and post a link to a brillant website ive found for help and advice/support for PND

Firstly my worst day ever that i had many months ago seems to staying that way and that even though i have had a few anixety feelings its been nothing compare to the worst day. Sophia is 5mths on wed and it would appear that my ups and downs are pretty much connected to how Sophia is. She had a bad time with her reflux about a month ago and this sent me into fear and the sick feeling started to come again as i was frighten she would become unsettled again and cry all the time and not sleep.....but this was not the case she was only unsettled for a while and now shes a happy baby and still sleeps through the night.

With regards to my healing, ive been in contact with a guy called phillip day and he has stated that post natal depression can be linked to low vitamin d levels and so i did some research and it was very interesting to see the symptoms low vitamin d do cause. I have since had a blood test and im awaiting the results. Also lets not forget i am currently taking throxine and so having a underactive thyroid can make you feel out of balance if your not on the right medication. I am hoping to stop throxine once ive stopped breast feeding/expressing.

Im currently having CBT therapy and im not sure how much of it is working for me as i am now wondering if im actually suffering from post traumatic stress disorder and not Post natal depression....as the two are treated differently.
.
I also tried hypnosis with a lovely lady and i felt amazing for a while but then i had a very stressful time with sophia being unsettled and the panic and the sick feeling came back. So i decided to try other treatments.

Now another lady i came across is Sarah Williams and she makes these amazing chakra creams and shes offering free readings on the creams you need. I was truly impressed with her lotions and potions and so i brought a kit so i could dowse and see what i needed etc. Ive currently brought a cream for my throat and sacral.

Ive heard that there is a treatment called human givens and its ment to really work well with depression and its quicker and not long and drawn out like CBT. Im seeing some one on Wednesday to see what its all about.

Finally, i heard something today that made me think...oh yea that makes sense and it was Sarah Williams talking about the ascension and the feelings people might be feeling at the moment......yep depression is one of them......ummmm

Heres the group called Pandas....brilliant for PND support etc.Lots of lovely storys

Lastest Update

Hello all,
I just wanted to say hi and that PND seems to be very much in the past now 🙂 I do have down days when my little girl is perhaps unsettled and not sleeping at night but no where near as bad as it was. Ive found that there is very little support for peeps suffering from post natal depression and so i did managed to come across a great organization called pandas who offer help and support for pre and postnatal suffers.

I felt very guided/driven to set up a local support group in my area and so this is my new project and although the process is going very slow...im trusting everything is as it should be and will unfold soon.

I have also found that hypnosis and human givens therapy have helped me recovery from PND. Ive also had my thyroid levels rechecked as this can be a sign of depression and also my vitamin d levels as this can be linked to depression also.

My support group has a facebook page and has also a closed group aswell. Im hoping to secure a venue on wed at my local childrens centre.

many blessings to you all
Rachelx

That's excellent news Hallos, I'm so pleased for you;).

And, what else is Sophia up to these days? Will she be sporting some interesting outfits over the Christmas period....? Christmas Puddings.... Christmas Fairies.... a Brussel Sprout (might help to restore the sullied reputation of Brussel Sprouts nationwide :D)...

Do you have a link for your support group's Facebook page, for anyone who comes across this thread in the future...?

Thankyou WildStrawberry your reply made me giggle. I have indeed been looking for outfits for my ickle one..but its probably going to be a boring pretty red party dress:) She is such a happy settled baby now...bless her i dont think she liked being here on earth at first. Her reflux still plays her up when shes teething and shes loves food...:) I Started weaning her at four months as she was a big girl and needed alittle more than milk. Shes only five months old and is in 6 to 9mths clothes. We are watching tiny pops as i type Meg and Mog. Shes so advanced for her age...and already knows whats she wants.....lots and lots of cuddles. She does sleep through the night aswell..but has been waking up at 3 and 530ish but think its linked to the solar flares or the moon...hehehe im going to make sure theres no port holes around her room aswell...as my other daughter used to keep waking up in that room.

The facebook page is

I will post a upto date photo of Sophia soon 🙂

xx

Thankyou WildStrawberry your reply made me giggle. I have indeed been looking for outfits for my ickle one..but its probably going to be a boring pretty red party dress:) She is such a happy settled baby now...bless her i dont think she liked being here on earth at first. Her reflux still plays her up when shes teething and shes loves food...:) I Started weaning her at four months as she was a big girl and needed alittle more than milk. Shes only five months old and is in 6 to 9mths clothes. We are watching tiny pops as i type Meg and Mog. Shes so advanced for her age...and already knows whats she wants.....lots and lots of cuddles. She does sleep through the night aswell..but has been waking up at 3 and 530ish but think its linked to the solar flares or the moon...hehehe im going to make sure theres no port holes around her room aswell...as my other daughter used to keep waking up in that room.

The facebook page is

I will post a upto date photo of Sophia soon 🙂

xx

Awwhh, that's great - all sounds BRILLIANT!

I was going to ask for a few photos, but didn't want to be too cheeky.... . I'll look forwards to those! With a healthy glowing face and a red party dress, Sophia could easily pretend to be a shiny red Bauble.....:D

If you're not around before Christmas - hope you all have a Good One! And: Best of Luck with your support group - brilliant idea........!

I happen to live in a society where people hardly talk about PND including most medics. Being a social worker in Nairobi - Kenya I have seen countless women suffering from PND because of the roles the society expects from them.

Am happy to see such big support for women suffering from PND. I just wish this can happen here.

Small Steps

Hello,
Thankyou for your reply. Even here in the uk there are struggles based around mental health issues ie depression, postnatal depression. My group is taking a while to start up and I think this is alot to do with people having to make the first step to admit they have post natal depression. I love the name ive choose for the group it links in so well with my experiences. All it takes is small steps and hopefully the ripple thats made via pandas support groups here in the uk will perhaps find its way out in the big wide world to.

Hi Hallos and Happy New Year!
Have recently come off Facebook so can't access the link but if I have any 'relevant' patients from your area, I'll pass the word on. Hope it gets off the ground....Hom

Happy new year hom. Ive made a free website now and ive started to get peeps coming to the group. Theses things take time to grow. I so love doing charity work. X

Happy new year hom. Ive made a free website now and ive started to get peeps coming to the group. Theses things take time to grow. I so love doing charity work. X

PND, very common and many ways to recover from it

Dear Hallos,
I was very interested to read about your journey through PND. I've had to deal with it and still recovering. For me, it didn't matter what people were telling me to do, I would still have these feelings and got me very down...
It all started to go better with a prescribed mild anti-depressant which has broken the vicious circle. Then, as I was feeling gradually better I've started to put everything back into perspective. I was very independent before and I was stuck at home with this baby who demanded of me more than I could give.
Well, I forgot about housework, it will still be there to do the next day! I got myself out of the house. With the children center I was attending a different group nearly every day! Baby massage, baby matter, breast feeding support group. Just for the contact with adults, it did me the world of good! I then considered exercise. I never took the car to go to the groups and definitively was a good decision!
Finally, I also considered my eating and I now have my little routine which works for me:
I go to bed every day no later than 10pm.
My alarm is set every day at 6.30am.
Breakfast: squeezed lemon juice into 1 pint of water + bowl of muesli with added seeds
This takes me right to lunch!
I then do my washing up from the night before and tidy up a bit the house. No better feeling to start the day with a clear head (house)
Then, my son wakes up and I'm in good mood to face a day with him!
Anyway, I just thought I would share with you my little tricks to beat PND which is a nasty place to be in...!
Hope you're getting on alright,
Lots of love, Una

Thankyou for sharing your story and well done you for not letting pnd win. All your changes are so positive and im so happy you will able to do them by yourself. Pandas is the only national charity for pre and postnatal depression and I spend alot if time on their facebook page. I def need to get to bed at 10..regardless of what I have to do. My little one has been waking at 330am and is ready to get up.... I find I cant seem to stay indoors and have to get out. Im hoping to start yoga tomorow. I also want to do the baby massage course aswell.

Lovely to hear from you. Xxx

Hi Hallos

Bit late - but Happy New Year to you :D.

How wonderful you are setting up this charity. This is excellent, as those with p.n.d. feel so very isolated, often struggling to cope with the new little one who is so demanding, plus everything else - and often feeling so very tired and suffering from lack of sleep too. Not easy!

And there are those who sail through it all as if they were just having breakfast and a wonderful day ahead - and that makes you feel worse, even inadequate. Oh yes .... not a lot of fun.

So, I empathise with all you have been through and congratulate you on coming through with an excellent idea and determination. Very well done!