On 300mg Thyroxine Still Hypothyroid

Hi - I've been in a similar position with the thyroxine not working. In my case I had both Hashimoto's and a lack of conversion to T3.
The thyroxine (T4), which is not active, has to be converted into the active form T3 by an enzyme. If this does not happen no matter how much T4 you take you will feel no better. I had to hold myself in check when the consultant endocrinologist told me that my "T4 levels were OK so what is the problem?" - I had just handed him a long list of symptoms - I was incensed! so I walked out and went private, but also learned as much as I could about it.
There are 3 possibilities to follow up:
1 Dr Durrant Peatfield specialises in thyroid, has written an excellent book 'The Great thyroid Scandal and How to Survive it' and runs clinics all over the country - see [DLMURL] http://www.thyroiduk.org.uk/tuk/pages/documents/Dr-Peatfiel d's-clinics.pdf[/DLMURL]
He himself has retired but he has other doctors who work for him. The reason why he had problems with the GMC is that he was prescribing thyroid extract which has a mixture of thyroid hormones (not artificial T4)! His patients, however, did extremely well - surprise, surprise ... Complaints were NOT upheld.
2 Dr Georges Mouton, Hale Clinic, Regents Park. He is Belgian, comes over every other week, and specialises in the thyroid/gut connection, lectures worldwide. He has turned my life around - I lost 3.5 stone in about 6 months with little effort, I have more energy and life is worth living again. I have now retrained to do therapies which have helped me, but I could not have managed it without Dr Mouton. See
3 Alternatively find another doctor in your area who has a sound knowledge of endocrinology.
Best of luck! It is definitely possible to recover with the right balance of hormones.
Caroline

Hi This is my first posting so I may not have it quite right; my name is Suie and I am a nutritional therapist. I frequently work with people with an underactive thyroid using natural supplements of minerals to increase production of T4 and T3. To make T4 you first of all need iodine, that maybe deficient, and may have caused your hypothyroidism in the first place, but it doesn't explain why the thyroxin isn't working. Following on from what Caroline says: T4 has to be converted to T3 using a specific enzyme; that enzyme requires several minerals to make it work properly. Most chemicals in the body work on a lock and key principle, the trouble is that if the enzyme is short of a mineral it can convert T3 into the wrong shape so that it won't fit and remains inactive. This is called reverse T3. They don't test for reverse T3 in England. You could get a private test done, or you could find somebody who works using Functionmal Biochemistry which is a branch of Aplied Kinesiology. That method would be able to find which specific mineral is deficient, how much you would need, and for how long.

Hi - I've been in a similar position with the thyroxine not working. In my case I had both Hashimoto's and a lack of conversion to T3.
The thyroxine (T4), which is not active, has to be converted into the active form T3 by an enzyme. If this does not happen no matter how much T4 you take you will feel no better. I had to hold myself in check when the consultant endocrinologist told me that my "T4 levels were OK so what is the problem?" - I had just handed him a long list of symptoms - I was incensed! so I walked out and went private, but also learned as much as I could about it.
There are 3 possibilities to follow up:
1 Dr Durrant Peatfield specialises in thyroid, has written an excellent book 'The Great thyroid Scandal and How to Survive it' and runs clinics all over the country - see [DLMURL] http://www.thyroiduk.org.uk/tuk/pages/documents/Dr-Peatfiel d's-clinics.pdf[/DLMURL]
He himself has retired but he has other doctors who work for him. The reason why he had problems with the GMC is that he was prescribing thyroid extract which has a mixture of thyroid hormones (not artificial T4)! His patients, however, did extremely well - surprise, surprise ... Complaints were NOT upheld.
2 Dr Georges Mouton, Hale Clinic, Regents Park. He is Belgian, comes over every other week, and specialises in the thyroid/gut connection, lectures worldwide. He has turned my life around - I lost 3.5 stone in about 6 months with little effort, I have more energy and life is worth living again. I have now retrained to do therapies which have helped me, but I could not have managed it without Dr Mouton. See
3 Alternatively find another doctor in your area who has a sound knowledge of endocrinology.
Best of luck! It is definitely possible to recover with the right balance of hormones.
Caroline

Hi Sue and Emma
Felt I'd said enough! but agree with your comments Sue, and Little Fawn's. I too am a Nutritional Therapist, but I felt my personal experience would be more helpful to tell just now.
Be aware that starving oneself lowers the metabolic rate - to 'conserve' what food we do eat - so eat lots of veggies and go for long walks. That'll help a bit right now. A nutritionist or holistic doctor will test for mineral deficiencies - I've never had so many test results in my life as I had from Dr Mouton! - which need rebalancing along with the hormones.
All the best
C

Thanks

Thanks so much for the replies, its a lot to take in, but I will be taking what I can of this when I see my GP wednesday, I think that maybe there is something in the reverse T4, as the thyroxine hasnt worked no matter what the dose has been, I also have had my 3rd child in the past 2 years, I was hypo all through the pregnancy and she is now nearly 2 and has hypotonia, she can not walk or weight bear as yet, it may take months or more likely years, I feel the fact I was hypo when I was carrying her could of been a factor in this. If anyone has anymore advice or any help that would be lovely. Or if anyone has had similar experiences. Emma x

I am planning to see Georges Mouton as well, having had lctures from him. He is, however, very expensive and I believe he likes to do lots of tests but if it makes me better then.......

I will be qualifying in nutrition this June.

Patchouli

I take a natural pig thyroid which has both T4 and T3. I have Hashimoto's. You just have to realize that most doctors are ignorant when it comes to thyroid disease.

There is a lot of information available here

I've been on Thyroxine for over 4 years and it has helped my energy levels but I still suffer from bouts of insomnia - so here I am at 3 in the morning!

I too had to fight with my doctor to get a test. I found Reiki and thyroxine helped.

Be aware, that even with hypothyroid you can experience anxiety which can lead to chest pains, irregular heart beat and insomnia.

I agree with the other comments - to arm yourself with information - a good website is .

Keep taking your prescribed medicine as stopping it is not advised.
Have faith in your ability to cope.

Keep taking your prescribed medicine as stopping it is not advised.

I really have to disagree here. Not everyone who is on synthetic thyroxine gains benefit from it.

For some, synthetic thyroxine does not appear to taken up at cellular level. Blood levels appear normal but there is absolutely no relief from symptoms whatsoever.

I am no different either on synthetic thyroxine nor off it. I only respond to porcine (pig) glandulars which the NHS do not prescribe (although this was the standard treatment prior to synthetic thyroxine.

People with hypothyroidism are not being given the choice of treatment by the NHS and are resorting to private care such as Georges Mouton, Dr Barry Durrant Peatfield, Dr Skinner, Myhill and others like them.

I would suggest that people check the website:

The care of hypothyroidism is exceptionally poor in the NHS. This organisation is fighting against that.

Patchouli

I agree Patchouli - I had no joy from NHS treatment and it's hard not to be angry that their lack of proper treatment has cost me my career, and some 12 years of my life. However the establishment are in total denial that artificial thyroxine has any problems associated with it! Also the warning signs of hypothyroidism - fibromyalgia - are not recognised either. :banghead:
Looking back I think I have probably been hypothyroid for 25 years, gradually getting worse until I saw Dr Mouton.
Thank goodness I am now more or less sorted and can get on with life again, but no thanks to the NHS. 😀
Caroline

dr george mouton

:)hello evryone i have just joined and read with interest all your comments on dr george moutonwho iam going to see. after being a 'deadperson' for many years now thanks to the endocrinolgists who do not seem to know enough , iam now back to the credit card , but it will be worth it if Dr. goerge puts me right. It was good reading your posts, i have had the most awful 9 months of my life with symptons of adrenal/thyroid/ gut/ gluten hormone inbalance/nausea/ faintng/ etc . cant wait to see george. xx:)

Hi Curtains and welcome to healthypages,

Do let us know how you get on. Although this thread was started a couple of years ago, throid problems are still something that are ambiguously understood by doctors. Just looking at the comparative ranges used between the UK and USA for determining if someone has e.g. an underactive thryoid or not, shows a vast difference in understanding. If I myself were to just be taken on UK levels, I would be considered to not have an issue, but by USA measurements I would have an underactive thryoid. Fortunately, I persisted with my doctor and she has tried me on a low (childs) dose of thyroxine and that has helped with some of my symptoms (including resolving my 'incurable' (as the eye specialist consultant put it) case of blepharitis aka watering eyes caused by skin cells from the eyelids blocking the tear duct). Sometimes you just have to do your own research and be persistent discussing it with your doctor, putting 'evidence' in front of them to show you know what you're talking about and you're not just clutching at straws. 😉

All Love and Reiki Hugs

:)hello evryone i have just joined and read with interest all your comments on dr george moutonwho iam going to see. after being a 'deadperson' for many years now thanks to the endocrinolgists who do not seem to know enough , iam now back to the credit card , but it will be worth it if Dr. goerge puts me right. It was good reading your posts, i have had the most awful 9 months of my life with symptons of adrenal/thyroid/ gut/ gluten hormone inbalance/nausea/ faintng/ etc . cant wait to see george. xx:)

Hi Curtains - welcome to HP

Delighted to hear you will be seeing Dr Georges Mouton - he's brilliant and if anybody can get to the bottom of it then he can - not cheap though! I shall be seeing him next week for my 6-monthly check-up. When are you going to see him?

I have not changed my mind in any way about NHS treatment of thyroid problems and I am still furious that they were totally oblivious of my problems and nothing seems to have changed elsewhere.

dr george mouton

hello giles and caroline thankyou for replying, i am going to see dr george wed 11 may. next week! i dont know what to expect so if anyone can enlighten me that would be great. does he treat with armour? natural progesterone etc?.. interestingly my eyes water constantley, whether i am indoors or out, i have had drops and the needle down the tear duct but it was clear so i reckoned it was hormones? has any one had symptons of adrenaline rushes thru your body at night with sensations like electricity an dnerves going haywire, i had this for months on end and the feeling was sheer torture an di have a high pain threshold but all the nerves and muscles in my limbs were twitching and throbbing, nausea , lost a stone in weight was wweak and shaky in the mornings, i learnt on various sites that low cortisol equals low blood sugar low bp, mine drops between 8 and 10 mm,but my endo has taken no notice when mine dropped 8 mm, most sites say 10mm, so does it really have to be by the book and drop 10? i have had to do so much research and consequently taking my findings and saliva tests ( showing hypo adrenal function) to endos and gps and a neuroendo proff in london has constituted me to be told i need to see a shrink! all that is wrong me me is hormones and poss gluten intolerant i am deffo not mental altho i certainly do feel it at times, its so frustrating when you know you have all these symptons and are fobbedof and altho this thread was started a couple of years ago i found it while searching out my symptons, i can honestly say that after having a very traumatic stressful life for 30 years that my adrenals must be debunked, we produce high cortisol at first but afet years of unrelenting stress we then produce less cortisol why dont docs realise this , we need thyroid and hormones to keep us alive what do they do a medschool becos if we can research (like we have to) why cant they look up stuff on sites, we are supposed to take responsibility for our own health and when we do its condenmed just like we are with the nhs. unless we fit in with the 'text' book then our symptons do not exsist. i only hope that dr george can get to th e bottom of this for me as i have had these 'crashes since 2006 and they are really really awful. i think i have been hypo adrenals/thyroid for years really an dnow my bod has had enough. its so good to talk to you guys in here take care pauline:) xx

dr george

hi i forgot to ask, i have lost most of my hair thru this awful illness has anyone regained theirs after seeing dr george? thanks. i am not good at navigating around and i saw a right hand column depicting 'friends' how do i do this? thanks guys. pauline:)

I'm on 300mcg of thyroxine and still dragging myself around.

Hi there, this is my first time on any site so I'm not exactly sure of what I'm doing but when I saw your post(?) I new exactly what you're talking about. Before my ex-doctor would test my thyroid I weighed 21 and 1/2 stone!!! I'm now on 300mcg and have somehow managed to get down to 15st but it is a very long and very hard slog.

Hi there, this is my first time on any site so I'm not exactly sure of what I'm doing but when I saw your post(?) I new exactly what you're talking about. Before my ex-doctor would test my thyroid I weighed 21 and 1/2 stone!!! I'm now on 300mcg and have somehow managed to get down to 15st but it is a very long and very hard slog.

hi minniesmum

Welcome to HP! Great forum with lots of info here - and a caring bunch of people!

If you are on such a high dose of thyroxine (T4) it often shows that you are not converting it to the active form of T3. There are some helpful herbal preparations that are available and dietary formats that can help to boost your metabolism. I would seriously suggest a Nutritional Therapist or you find a doctor of Functional Medicine (private) such as [url]Dr Georges Mouton[/url] to help sort you out, or Dr [url]Barry Durrant Peatfield[/url] who specialises in thyroid problems and knows about as much as them anyone, having written [url]several books [/url]on the subject. The NHS system wears blinkers and is worse than useless as far as I can see on thyroid issues (my opinion based on experience).

It is also useful to be aware that food intolerance can cause one to hold onto extra weight, as well as some detrimental gut bacteria - so there's a lot to sort out and it will not happen overnight, but it is possible to get there.

Wishing you all the best - and Curtains too!

There is light at the end of the tunnel - it's just finding it!

dr mouton caroline and energyz

dear caroline and energyz, thankyou for your good wishes, yes i have now seen dr george, he found so much wrong! adrenals for a start which i knew damn well but the nhs refused to listen they just said i needed a shrink!!!! anyway its nearly a year now since i had all those horrendous sensations listed below there is a vast improvemnent mainly thanks to kinesiology an dmy homeopath with various supps, but blimey after dr george i am soooooooooo stressed!!!!! its the cost of the medication. i know i need this but i havent a clue how i am gonn apay my credit card, i only hope and pray that the treatment works quickly, i have had to send to belgium to get it all, the meds are from a compounding pharm in belgium an dthe supps from belgium too. i find it appalling that we are so neglected by the nhs, i was wondering if i could sue? would dr gmouton 's report go down with our uk nhs as gospel or would they reject his findings? i am so low in all my hormones and he pointed put that i was low in blood t3 but even lower in urine t3, not sure what this difference is, but anyway i have armour (when the delivery arrives i am waiting in like a cat on a hot tin roof waiting for the shipment today and it still hasnt come!!! i was refused t3 from my local hospital mine read ft3 3.2 an dthe ref range was 3.9-6.7. but the local endo says....'youre body converts 'just whhat it needs'!!!! half heartedly he said in his report in march that 'did i possibly have and adrenal crash? but at the same time dismissed the possibility... where on earth and how on earth are we supposed to get well here, we just have to find money we havent got to go a doctor that knows, funny i have never thought of myself as depressed even when i was so very ill non stop for 24/7, but now i have blubbed for a wweek, maybe its becos at last someone has listened, and i am troubled at the amount of things now wrong with my body and the cost of having to put it right.... what do our endos learn at med school? who is behind the training cutoff ,who is making money out of this... i coud really get on my soapbox, i have all my medical records here, even been classed as a hypocondriac...---i wish!!!!! it would be a lot cheaper! an di wouldnt really be ill ha ha ha.... well i go to dr george in august, but already i am a week wiythout his meds, still waiting for that confounded lorry to turn up with my barrow load of meds and supps. i am just so tired of shoving pills potions etc down my throat.. well thanks guys for listening , reading etc, any feed back i will greatly receive an dthankyou for your kind wishes caroline,- can you tell me if there is a private message service on here and how to access it? many thanks please keep in touch. lots o love to all you fellow sufferers .. curtains.xxxx:cool::wave::soapbox:

Hi Curtains,

There is a private messaging facility you can use, though it's not available to new members (to help prevent spamming). It gets automatically lifted by the forum after you've been a member for a few days and made a number of acceptable posts. I think you've now reached those limits so you should have it available.

If you click on the "User Control Panel" link at the top of the thread, you can get to the little menu for Private Messages on the left hand side where you can send new messages etc.

Any problems, please use the "Contact Us" link at the bottom of the page to raise a ticket with the support team.

All Love and Reiki Hugs

Hi Pauline

I'm so glad you have been given a proper assessment from Dr Mouton and a diagnosis. I can very much understand your grief and anger when the NHS just do not recognise this sort of problem. Grief that so much time has been wasted while the illness has just got worse and worse, and relief at being believed at last - how dare they tell us it is hypochondria!!!! :035:. Anger that the NHS just have a complete blank on T3 levels. I was incensed with my endocrinologist - I felt I knew more than he did :eek:. When I reported back to Dr Mouton what he said to me, Dr M sat back and said "Where has the man been this last 20 years?" They obviously don't keep up with the new studies - something Dr M is champion at - in whatever language! - he's multilingual.

Unfortunately it is not a cheap option seeing Dr M. The tests and supplements are all to pay for too. I would certainly stick with him in the short term, then when you are stabilised try your GP again. I have shown my test results to my GP who said he didn't understand them, especially that bit which was in French :rolleyes:.

I think it is important to learn as much about thyroid problems as possible - Dr Barry Durrant-Peatfield's books are superb - but you'll probably need to read and re-read several times (if you are anything like me!) to understand it fully. They are very readable, but information-dense.

If you are low in urine T3 it means your body has made very little of it from all the thyroxine you have been taking - that is, it is not being converted. You need a converting enzyme to do this and if it doesn't work then you need to take T3 or Armour thyroid to compensate.

I agree that taking so many supplements are a pain, but actually all that Dr M recommends is based on scientific knowledge of the body's biochemistry, and will do what they are supposed to do. There are sometimes other options available at the Nutri Centre in the basement of the Hale Clinic (and loads of books too :)), so something like vit D I get from there instead of waiting for it to come from Belgium. The meds have to come from there though as there is no equivalent available here in UK, so don't leave it too late to re-order.

Thinking of you and sincerely hoping you feel better soon - but balancing thyroid is not a quick fix - in a few weeks you'll be feeling a lot better I am sure.

Big hugs :hug:, Love and Light

300 micrograms

a) thyroid levels are based on 1-100 average you might be number 120

b) chest pain is probably due to the thyroxine see doc

c) Modafnil and the new Nodafnil aka provigil- your doctor can but wont prescribe it but you can get it in the US and parts of europe. it has it's risks but is expensive and thats why we cant get it here. (i take every day and love it)

d) Pig Thyroid? there have been some studies that it works better for certain types of thyroid dysfunction

d) were you hyper then hypo or just hyper?

NTD
(never trust doctors)

NTD,

It is not advisable to recommend medications unless you are a medically qualified practitioner and you have performed proper diagnosis of the client/patient. To do so, you could be breaking the law.

It is probably best that you do not make such recommendations on the forums.

All Love and Reiki Hugs

@energ

At no point did I reccomend drugs, which by the way is not a criminal offence. I could reccomend bank robbery but it would be for a court to decide if I hadincited an offence or discussed whimsically what it would be like to have lots of cash.(I am legally qualified) medically well read. (especially on my speciallist subject which this is part of)

My intent was to make the person aware of other treatment structures and to point out that they hat signs for concern the heart murmurs brought on by too much thyroxine. (in my non medical personal opinion)

Of course you should see your p-doc or endo prior to being prescribed new drugs. (that is after where the prescriptions come from)

if I cant discuss pharmachology in the aim to make myself and others feel better than I will leave you and your Reiki Hugs too it. I made the assumption that the people on this site were adults looking for ways to be well and if you were that person, would you rather insight into other ideas or Reiki Hugs

Patrick Llb (Hons) Mphil Dip HSW

NTD,

The response was to where you say:

c) Modafnil and the new Nodafnil aka provigil- your doctor can but wont prescribe it but you can get it in the US and parts of europe. it has it's risks but is expensive and thats why we cant get it here. (i take every day and love it)

This reads as you advising people to purchase these drugs from abroad if they can't get their doctor to prescribe it, and that is not good advise, especially considering the number of 'dodgy' online pharmaceutical companies out there supplying dangerous rip-offs on the cheap.

By all means, talk about these things, but perhaps just re-read your wording before you post to try and ensure it can't be taken wrongly. :rolleyes:

All Love and Reiki Hugs

people make thee own decision anyway thought this site might be useful but its just selfg misery (rather typical of people with hypo if you think of it)

as a point i sugessted buing in the US WHERE YOU NEED A PRESCRIPTION FROM A DOCTOR FOR ANY DRUG CONTROLLED IN YOUR COUNTRY

no love and Reiki is nonsense

goodby ADULTS capable of making their own decisions

this site is quite honestly nonsense

Complementary does not mean Usless but the science has to be there -------

Hi dose vit c for example not Reiki or aromatherapy

Daughter needs your help

Hi can anybody recommend a physician sympathetic to finding underlying disorders for thyroid problems? My daughter, 20 has been diagnosed with Hashimoto's thyroiditis since 14. There are autoimmune disorders in the family. Over the last few years she seems to be forgetful, tired, menstrual disorders, listless and cannot concentrate on work. her body hair and her eyebrows have dropped off. She put on 30 kgs in one year. Her thyroid medication does not seem to be working and fluctuates wildly. Sometimes she feels that she has overdosed on 125mcg and gets IBS symptons. Other times she feels it is not enough. Most of the time she is inactive and lies down as her body aches and is very depressed. Sometimes I cannot engage with her. She has retreated into herself. She was extremely intelligent and had hoped to do medicine, managed to struggle into university, but has now been thrown out of university because of absences and poor performance. The university will not believe that hashimoto's has affected her health and has said that there is no evidence that it can cause depression! My daughter wants to re-apply to university but I feel she has to return to good health first. Please help. I live in Greater London but am prepared to travel to a kind sympathetic doctor. HELP!

Hi can anybody recommend a physician sympathetic to finding underlying disorders for thyroid problems? My daughter, 20 has been diagnosed with Hashimoto's thyroiditis since 14. There are autoimmune disorders in the family. Over the last few years she seems to be forgetful, tired, menstrual disorders, listless and cannot concentrate on work. her body hair and her eyebrows have dropped off. She put on 30 kgs in one year. Her thyroid medication does not seem to be working and fluctuates wildly. Sometimes she feels that she has overdosed on 125mcg and gets IBS symptons. Other times she feels it is not enough. Most of the time she is inactive and lies down as her body aches and is very depressed. Sometimes I cannot engage with her. She has retreated into herself. She was extremely intelligent and had hoped to do medicine, managed to struggle into university, but has now been thrown out of university because of absences and poor performance. The university will not believe that hashimoto's has affected her health and has said that there is no evidence that it can cause depression! My daughter wants to re-apply to university but I feel she has to return to good health first. Please help. I live in Greater London but am prepared to travel to a kind sympathetic doctor. HELP!

So sorry to hear about your daughter's problems and at such a young age. There is obviously something else going on, but that needs careful investigation by someone who is interested in curing their patients, not just doling out pills and telling you that "if something else is going on it's your fault". 😡 I repeat (see below) Dr Barry Durrant-Peatfield or Dr Mouton are definitely your best bet. Unfortunately neither is cheap as quality supplements are needed and they treat the whole body. Do read websites such as [url]Thyroid UK[/url], and .

Wishing you both all the best.

CarolineN,
Thank you for your prompt reply. Nice to know somebody else understands. My daughter was made to feel by the NHS doctor that the root of her problems was her weight. Not surprisingly she stopped visiting him. I will ring the doctors you recommended. :045:

Hi here is the address of an excellent group who have a real wealth of information [url]Thyroid Patient Advocacy: Real Solutions for Real Suffering[/url]

If you ask Sheila she can send you a list of doctors who have been recommended my members all around the UK. 🙂

Hi here is the address of an excellent group who have a real wealth of information [url]Thyroid Patient Advocacy: Real Solutions for Real Suffering[/url]

If you ask Sheila she can send you a list of doctors who have been recommended my members all around the UK. 🙂

Thank you so much for the link. So many of us have struggled to get balanced and the general medical system is quite frankly not fit for purpose as it stands - too many with hypothyroidism are left inadequately treated.