Learning lessons

Yes I also believe that we get presented with certain situations repeatedly until we learn the lesson or - in dreams - get the message.

Presumably you did not set out to be in a relationship where the person is dominating or aggressive so I am wondering if either (a) they could have been successfully concealing this or (b) you possibly lacked the insight in seeing this (we tend to emphasise the positives and downplay the negatives when we are interested in someone) or (c) subconsciously you sought such a person in order to learn the lesson from it.

No-one can dominate you if you are assertive so I wonder whether learning self assertion skills would be beneficial. People who are really nice/people pleasers are usually horrified at this thought, thinking that it entails bullying but that is not the case. (That is the extreme end of being assertive!) It is about standing your ground, empowering yourself.

I speak from personal experience having once been a doormat to now being confident in defending myself against any potential oppressors. I didn't actually take self assertion classes but, as my belief in self grew, this naturally boosted my self esteem. I don't have a victim's mentality and pick my relationships carefully i.e. I would avoid someone with a lot of anger/aggression.

"Nobody can make you feel inferior without your permission" (Eleanor Roosevelt).

I have noticed that sometimes you keep getting faced with the same thing until you have learnt what it is you were meant to learn.
I'm quite sensitive and I'm not going to lie but aggression in people does scare me. I know everyone gets aggressive - its an emotion but if you end up in relationships where you feel the person is dominating you or being aggressive does this mean that you are meant to fight back and stand up for yourself ??
I've heard that you have to face things and if you don't it will just keep re-occurring until you do it so you can learn the lesson.

This thing about 'lessons to learn' has been doing rounds in new age type psychology and spirituality. It is in ether, it creeps in everywhere, in people's understanding thoughts and normal chit chat. Like you say in your post...

There are no lessons to be learnt other than the ones you think you are going to have to learn...There are no classes/levels to pass, no hierarchies of spiritual ripeness based on exactly how many lessons have been learnt and how many more to go... a hype has been spun and propagated with no one stopping to question the superficial wisdom in such concepts. That's what band wagon does.

"You have to face things and if you don't it will keep recurring until you do it so you can learn the lesson"

It is not about lessons. It is only about awareness. For instance If you Mistook a rope for a snake...It will inspire very real emotional response just as a real snake would. Then you were to become aware that it is a rope, the whole mental construct of thoughts, emotions collapses. What lessons? What tests? Awareness simplifies. Now it is not a lesson learnt that it is a snake. It is awareness striking.

Life is all about awareness, becoming aware of how one's mind functions, the tricks it plays. Knowing it intimately. Then it frees you.

Mind is a self perpetuating mechanism. It will keep generating lessons, upon lessons, upon lessons to entertain you if you decided that's what you are here for. Self fulfilling prophecy. You want lessons....here you go, learn another one, and another one...endless lessons.

When understanding strikes with awareness, life simplifies, it yields. Awareness is the key. The cat gets out of the bag, you see clearly what's what. Suffering in our lives in all forms is because we don't know our own mind. We acre not aware of the functionality of mind. If we knew our own mind closely, there are no lessons that need learning.

For aggression - the awareness will strike one day that fear is generated in my mind, as you become aware of your fear without judgement or negation, you will find the grip of fear loosening and eventually letting go. As that happens in you mysteriously the aggression in people, situations, events vanish too. Awareness....acceptance...freedom

It is simpler than learning lessons. Life is for living. Purely for living....conceptual garbage sits in the way of living.
Love

Hahaha about that quote. I've heard of that one before 🙂

I've met loads of bullies over the years, also I think everyone can become a bully at any time.

I've been told about self assertion before. I find all this very difficult as its not in my nature - but the way the world is maybe it's imperative ? Maybe I am a people pleaser, not sure ??

I personally think the relationship with this person was karmic because they came into my life at a particular time to help me out with something as if it happened for a reason. It was quite strange as the timing was impeccable.
I don't think this person realised the full extent of their aggression and they had a load of good sides too but they had been known to get into fights with others.

My ex partner had issues with anger / violence and I tolerated more than I should have done from him (like many other people have too). I have also been on the receiving end of a bit of violence throughout my lifetime due to karmic reasons so I'm guessing this relationship with this person was a lesson for me to stand up for myself and not tolerate their anger.

When I look around I see many passive / aggressive relationships and people bullying others and over-dominating them.

I like this. This is interesting.
I totally agree with you that awareness is absolute f****** freedom. It takes a while but once you get it, it's amazing.
I've noticed that any resentments or issues we have with others is more to do with us and we will only damage ourselves. Other people's emotions are their 'stuff', not ours so we have no business absorbing it.

I know you say about 'new age' jargon but I am quite into the karma theory and it's only ideas I've picked up from reading certain literature, what other people have said and also from visiting occult therapists.

Hahaha about that quote. I've heard of that one before 🙂

I've met loads of bullies over the years, also I think everyone can become a bully at any time.

I've been told about self assertion before. I find all this very difficult as its not in my nature - but the way the world is maybe it's imperative ? Maybe I am a people pleaser, not sure ??

I personally think the relationship with this person was karmic because they came into my life at a particular time to help me out with something as if it happened for a reason. It was quite strange as the timing was impeccable.
I don't think this person realised the full extent of their aggression and they had a load of good sides too but they had been known to get into fights with others.

My ex partner had issues with anger / violence and I tolerated more than I should have done from him (like many other people have too). I have also been on the receiving end of a bit of violence throughout my lifetime due to karmic reasons so I'm guessing this relationship with this person was a lesson for me to stand up for myself and not tolerate their anger.

When I look around I see many passive / aggressive relationships and people bullying others and over-dominating them.

Everything is karmic in a way as karma is nothing but energy flowing in certain direction.
Karma exhausts itself. Mind keeps generating more.
Allow fear in your chest. Breathe into it. Don't think about it...feel and allow it. All aggression will vanish

Energy that is accumulated exhausts itself. Yours will too. Just live, people learn so much, too much knowledge kills us. It is a useless thing, nobody tells you that!

Live. Just live. In it all circus is welcome too, all parade of emotions....warts and all. Filled with beauty one minute, ugly the next, the whole package! Stay open to all of it. Life will teach you mould you, bend you break you, she knows what you need. She will do it, stay open to her wisdom, her plan, her compassion, her brutality, her wholeness. You will become the butterfly, that you are destined to.

Stay open, you learn to trust yourself....your instincts sharpen over time, you can dance all the way..screaming, kicking sulking, laughing....the whole spectrum expresses itself in us humans.
Don't get too hooked on philosophies....karma and all that.
Live life!

This thing about 'lessons to learn' has been doing rounds in new age type psychology and spirituality. It is in ether, it creeps in everywhere, in people's understanding thoughts and normal chit chat. Like you say in your post...

There are no lessons to be learnt other than the ones you think you are going to have to learn...

Yes of course! It's subjective and depends whether we are interested in self development or not. Jnani, I feel that you see the word 'lessons' and it triggers a whole host of associations that are flawed in your appraising of them. Take this example you give here...

It is not about lessons. It is only about awareness.
For aggression - the awareness will strike one day that fear is generated in my mind, as you become aware of your fear without judgement or negation, you will find the grip of fear loosening and eventually letting go. As that happens in you mysteriously the aggression in people, situations, events vanish too. Awareness....acceptance...freedom

It is simpler than learning lessons. Life is for living. Purely for living....conceptual garbage sits in the way of living.
Love

Awareness is key, yes! It's actually also the first step in tackling a problem/situation. In the example of tackling aggression that you give here, you are offering a solution.....by any other name it could also be called a situation whereby a lesson can be learnt!

So, if we hear often enough that we have a certain disagreeable trait, we might use awareness as the first stage in observing what takes place. We might then gain a better understanding whereby we can take a direction, i.e. learn from this.

Learning a lesson is not conceptual garbage - just different words for the same thing that you have offered an explanation for. Do you see that I wonder?

I agree with you (in your later post) about trusting yourself and instincts getting sharper though. This is actually part of the New Age movement which you are so against, notably empowering self.

I used to think I was a New Ager and have grown to criticise it on many points (I even have a thread on it on this forum). Most New Agers are kind of 'pick and mix' i.e. borrow bits from various teachings which I think is fine if it is found to be helpful. (I have only come across a few pink clouders/head in the sand types - denying anything negative) However I feel you are throwing the baby out with the bath water. Positive thinking is part of the 'package' and it is hugely beneficial to have such a mindset - it transformed my life!

I know I talk about this karma / anger stuff a lot but it's because it deeply bothers me and it plays on my mind a lot so it must be something for me to be aware of.

I'm processing a lot of past anger / resentments and energies at the moment and healing them off so this could be another factor.

Lots of people are very aggressive and they go around like that and people do it to them and it doesn't bother them unless they've had to put on a tough act over the years to cope with it.

I know I talk about this karma / anger stuff a lot but it's because it deeply bothers me and it plays on my mind a lot so it must be something for me to be aware of.
Lots of people are very aggressive and they go around like that and people do it to them and it doesn't bother them unless they've had to put on a tough act over the years to cope with it.

Yes there is nothing wrong in wanting to overcome this. It matters not what it is called i.e. problem, a lesson to be learnt. I think it is helpful if you can gain some insight/understanding as to why the person is aggressive (i.e. it's about their stuff, not you quite often....maybe their life is currently very stressful).

What does it bring up in you when you are in such a situation? Are you afraid of being physically attacked and/or being undermined? How would you like to handle it?

Wow that struck a chord in me then what you just said.

I find it frightening I think. I was physically attacked when I was very, very young and I can't remember the full details 100% but I think it really frightened me. It might not have been that bad but I can't remember.

When I think about the persons anger I'm talking about at the moment it makes me feel absolutely riled and full of anger. I want to hurt them and cause them pain like they have done to me.
It also makes me feel unsafe. I was in a house and the person upstairs was in a very angry state. She was smashing and stamping about ferociously - it wouldn't be wrong to say that I started to get a little frightened because it was so loud and aggressive.

I've realised now to totally detach. Their energy is their energy and mine is mine. I am not connected.

You will find this hard to believe but most of my life I have tried to avoid confrontation wherever I have been even if people have thrown insults at me or tried to push me about. I was caught unawares as I'm slow to react sometimes. I'm quite mystical so a lot of the time I look like I'm in a daze.

I would rather escape it for an easy life. I've done this my whole life maybe even in the family home although sometimes I remember being aggressive or fighting back.

You will find this hard to believe but most of my life I have tried to avoid confrontation wherever I have been even if people have thrown insults at me or tried to push me about. I was caught unawares as I'm slow to react sometimes. I'm quite mystical so a lot of the time I look like I'm in a daze.

I would rather escape it for an easy life. I've done this my whole life maybe even in the family home although sometimes I remember being aggressive or fighting back.

No, it is hard to believe at all. It is fear associated with it that makes it hard for you to deal with aggressive situations. You are recognizing this fear energy as your karma(accumulated energy). Which will exhaust itself as you recognise it. But mind keeps generating thoughts.....which keeps generating fear...so awareness that mind is generating karma....takes you beyond the dynamic of constantly creating it, as well as exhausting it. So the dynamic is seen, the circle of energy that keeps a certain reality in place and how that particular reality generates more of that energy....circle. Fearful of aggression....

Psychological Fear - aggression manifesting in your reality - fear - aggression in reality.....vicious circle. Karma. So the circle breaks with recognition that fear in mind creates it in my reality, reality fills me with fear, that fear energy attracts aggression.....going round and round...sometimes others are aggressive, sometimes yourself...but it is the same energy..

Awareness that my mind is where the buck stops....is the point where freedom enters.

A common held belief is that you must make the effort to work on yourself, analyze, read, study, learn stuff to deal with issues and patterns. Most people do that. However, it is largely futile exercise other than lending you the general focus of self improvement...
awareness is a delicate happening. The more relaxed your mind gets more self- aware it becomes. Effortlessness is the alchemy that triggers awareness. When the mind is in effort mode it is too tense with concepts, knowledge, techniques....it is not awareness really, just bunch of concepts and more knowledge
Awareness strikes in loose and natural state never in a tense mind. Mind twigs itself. Which alone frees you
So most of the self improvement work yields some results...it is the non-doing that takes you out of karmic cycle.

You say "I would rather escape it for an easy life" . I love the way you are innately tuned in to non-doing.
I am one of those people too. I let it be easy too. I don't do hard stuff. If it is too hard, I just find an easier way....if I am not enjoying it, it is not easy, it isn't right. You already have that inner wisdom

if more people had the same sense, the world will be in less pickle. But people rather be warriors, fight their demons, fight their own gestalt, trying to change.....very little is ever changed. Even if a little here and there changes, the gestalt remain the same.
What can go wrong in your life? Life will see to you in an affectionate manner
Love

A common held belief is that you must make the effort to work on yourself, analyze, read, study, learn stuff to deal with issues and patterns. Most people do that. However, it is largely futile exercise other than lending you the general focus of self improvement...
awareness is a delicate happening. The more relaxed your mind gets more self- aware it becomes. Effortlessness is the alchemy that triggers awareness. When the mind is in effort mode it is too tense with concepts, knowledge, techniques....it is not awareness really, just bunch of concepts and more knowledge
Awareness strikes in loose and natural state never in a tense mind. Mind twigs itself. Which alone frees you
So most of the self improvement work yields some results...it is the non-doing that takes you out of karmic cycle.

I am truly astonished that you think those working on their problems do so without awareness! Really?? I guess what you are saying is that there is a danger of becoming too mind focused. This is not to be frowned on though if the issue stems from the mind! Also there are many ways to help solve issues e.g. relaxation techniques like meditation.

By 'non-doing' you mean not reacting? That is the hard part and doesn't get to grips about why someone reacts as they do - this is where insight and understanding is necessary. Try telling someone who has a panic attack not to panic! Coping mechanisms are valuable and to dismiss them is myopic.

I am truly astonished that you think those working on their problems do so without awareness! Really?? I guess what you are saying is that there is a danger of becoming too mind focused. This is not to be frowned on though if the issue stems from the mind! Also there are many ways to help solve issues e.g. relaxation techniques like meditation.

By 'non-doing' you mean not reacting? That is the hard part and doesn't get to grips about why someone reacts as they do - this is where insight and understanding is necessary. Try telling someone who has a panic attack not to panic! Coping mechanisms are valuable and to dismiss them is myopic.

You read it and make this out? Well let me tell you I am not astonished at your response.
We have been there before, haven't we Amy!

My response is directly to poppy summers and her alone. I am not addressing anyone else, that's why I always put quotes. You are astonished...what can be said?

You read it and make this out? Well let me tell you I am not astonished at your response.
We have been there before, haven't we Amy!

My response is directly to poppy summers and her alone. I am not addressing anyone else, that's why I always put quotes. You are astonished...what can be said?

Yes we have been there before and I see you are not interested in examining/discussing your beliefs, i.e. that you are closed off to this. Your choice....indeed what can be said!?

Whilst I appreciate that you are replying to Poppy-summer, this is a forum (not a private conversation) and it is the nature of a forum that we can all freely interact and offer feedback.

Having had direct interaction with New Agers now for a very long time, I find your view of them woefully inaccurate and sweeping in its generalisations, so I do feel the need to correct this false appraisal for the benefit of others who read this thread. I trust you will now understand my motive. Thank you.

In your view what is a doormat or doormat behaviour ?
I think anyone has potential to be like this at some point in their lives.

In your view what is a doormat or doormat behaviour ?
I think anyone has potential to be like this at some point in their lives.

Letting someone walk all over you, i.e. having no clear boundaries and so people can impinge on your own space. There is a danger in nice, gentle people (e.g. often these are people pleasers) that their passive, overly receptive behaviour opens them up to being abused by others - taking advantage of their good nature. For example, say someone wants to borrow something of yours that is precious and you would rather they didn't take it, being unable to say no.

Interesting. Sometimes I have done that but other times I've said no.

There was a problem in a shared home once and my mate stormed in my room and had a go at me holding me responsible. She was quite upset with the situation. I then passed the buck as realistically it wasn't my fault.
Did this person overstep my boundaries ?
Sorry to bang on but I'm trying to ascertain boundaries and I enjoy talking about it 🙂

This is very interesting - the letting go.
I've been doing a lot of this over the last few years. Trying to let go and detach and it does seem to be working ;-p

Realistically in a perfect world it would be nice to have clear-cut boundaries all the time I guess but I don't think it's always possible.
We are not perfect.

Interesting. Sometimes I have done that but other times I've said no.

There was a problem in a shared home once and my mate stormed in my room and had a go at me holding me responsible. She was quite upset with the situation. I then passed the buck as realistically it wasn't my fault.
Did this person overstep my boundaries ?
Sorry to bang on but I'm trying to ascertain boundaries and I enjoy talking about it 🙂

Without knowing more about the situation, it would be hard to assess it. What was she upset about?

People who are overly passive, i.e. not assertive have not created boundaries in the first place. I hope that this is not the case with yourself.

Realistically in a perfect world it would be nice to have clear-cut boundaries all the time I guess but I don't think it's always possible.
We are not perfect.

I agree but having boundaries on what is important to you shows where you want to be respected. It's not like you need to spell things out exactly but just to ensure that people know what matters to you.

Well a person who was sent by the homeowner went through her room to fix a problem.
Girl in question got very angry when she went into her room and found him there. She automatically thought I was responsible and attacked me.
Some of the housekeeping stuff got lumped onto me because I'd known the home owner for a long time but it still didn't warrant an attack I don't reckon. This might not be anything to do with boundaries.

I wonder what passive means ?? hahaha

I let my ex partner push me about a few times, a few work bosses shout in my face and have a go at me constantly. I had a friend tell me off once about how I was living my life and the choices I wanted to make even when it was something simple like buying a bottle of shampoo. She even said to me at the time - 'Why are you being so passive?'. I found it a little interferring and it makes me want to keep people at a distance sometimes.

My parents have physically and verbally attacked me occassionally.
I've never really said anything.

Lately I have started having a go at people and telling them off about how they are which they're not quite enjoying very much.
It's probably not ideal but they need to hear it.

I'm not moaning and complaining though as I've seen so many other people go through these sorts of things.

Now I'm recollecting these memories I'm thinking damn uhhhhh doormat ??????

Well a person who was sent by the homeowner went through her room to fix a problem.
Girl in question got very angry when she went into her room and found him there. She automatically thought I was responsible and attacked me.
Some of the housekeeping stuff got lumped onto me because I'd known the home owner for a long time but it still didn't warrant an attack I don't reckon. This might not be anything to do with boundaries.

As you surmise, this is not really about boundaries. It is about wrong assumptions! I hope she gave you an apology for jumping the gun (considering it had nothing to do with you). I don't know whose 'job' it was to brief her that her room would need to be entered to fix the problem - that is where the area of responsibility rests, in my view.

I wonder what passive means ?? hahaha

I let my ex partner push me about a few times, a few work bosses shout in my face and have a go at me constantly. I had a friend tell me off once about how I was living my life and the choices I wanted to make even when it was something simple like buying a bottle of shampoo. She even said to me at the time - 'Why are you being so passive?'. I found it a little interferring and it makes me want to keep people at a distance sometimes.

My parents have physically and verbally attacked me occassionally.
I've never really said anything.

Lately I have started having a go at people and telling them off about how they are which they're not quite enjoying very much.
It's probably not ideal but they need to hear it.

I'm not moaning and complaining though as I've seen so many other people go through these sorts of things.

Now I'm recollecting these memories I'm thinking damn uhhhhh doormat ??????

Being passive is not actively responding or resisting what takes place - giving others free rein to ride roughshod over you....does that sound familiar? I used to be like that - thankfully, no more! I will not tolerate being abused at all now.

Maybe now that you are expressing yourself, you are not finding the middle ground and so the words are coming out in an explosive way? There are tactful ways to get your needs met without alienating yourself from the person you are talking to....this is what self assertion is all about. (You don't need to do a course/go to classes, i.e. there are books on it - for instance, your local library should have some or perhaps there is stuff online).

I see.
Actually now I recollect she did skirt around the issue the next time we met saying she was stressed or something. I can't fully remember.
Ultimately I reckon it's the homeowner but things did get left up to me sometimes but I have my own things to sort out.
I think you're right - assumptions, assumptions. Like many other misunderstandings that happen between people. At least it wasn't too serious.

That does make a lot of sense thank you.
I think if you're not totally aware though sometimes you don't realise.
There we go back to AWARENESS again
yayyyyyy

That does make a lot of sense thank you.
I think if you're not totally aware though sometimes you don't realise.
There we go back to AWARENESS again
yayyyyyy

Yes awareness is key - the first step to solving an issue whichever route you take!

So .... to wrap this up, in a nutshell the friend who I felt dominated me and got over-aggressive was sent my way so that I learnt to stand up for myself ??