Another slap in the face. PLEASE HELP

RE: Another slap in the face. PLEASE HELP

GentleMan,

It sounds as though you are going through a very challenging time, my friend.

Have you done any inner child work to discover if perhaps this desire within you does stem from your relationship with your mother?

In this instance, it sounds and looks to me far more like a gender issue than a nurturance one.

I respect the fact that you are addressing what the points of attraction in trying to become a woman actually mean to you, since, as you have so astutely found, perhaps there is a cause to be dealt with that does not require the physical manifestation of that desire (ie for you to 'go through with it')

As you say, and i say this to be honest, you can never become a woman. You were born a man and will always be one - you may choose to undergo surgery to aesthetically please yourself to look like a woman, but you will still be a male. The success stories of these procedures are from those who settle for looking like a woman, and for many, this does make them happy. It sounds to me in your resigned tone that you have pushed through that illusion and realised that regardless of exterior adornment or change, you will still be the same inside.

I should add that gender understanding and awareness is one of the things i do, so i'm not just inserting rhetorical opinion.

I do not want to tread on the toes of your existing counselling, as obviously there are many personal factors that have to be considered, so i will not delve too deep or make too bold a statement.

Even now, when I try to discuss my life and my spiritual beliefs with her, she always puts it down as if it has no consequence.

I would separate the relationship with your mother from this issue to be honest. Many, many people do not have the type of relationship they want with parents and/or siblings. I would recommend pursuing inner child work to heal this - 'Homecoming' by John Bradshaw is probably the most acclaimed book on the topic, and the Hoffman Quadrinity Process is probably the best intensive inner child workshop there is: - its not cheap, but it is powerful work.

Is all this torture about me wanting acceptance from her?

I am going to be bold here. No. It categorically is not. All this torture is about wanting acceptance from your Self. You have an acute sensitivity to your own duality, which you experience as feeling like 'trying to be two people'.

This can be tackled perfectly healthily and without invasive surgery or drugs, i guarantee it. But it requires you to be pro-active with your Self, and not to look to others to provide you with the solution to your dichotomy. A doctor of the body cannot help you with this dis - ease you feel. I say this with the utmost respect and not with any implication of sickness or anything negative, dis-ease is exactly what is driving you to do this - you are not at ease with your Self.

This cannot be solved with a knife, my friend. you have already ascertained that.

I'm going to leave it at that for you just now, because it is very hard, and very dangerous, for me to say too much without a better understanding of where you are within yourself. . I do not wish to have a negative impact on any work you have already done, or anyone else, so i leave the above as simply food for thought.

If you would like to discuss this further, i dont mind you PM'ing me at all. or replying here on the forum.

I hope the above helps.

with the utmost respect and hope for your continued well-being

Magpie

RE: Another slap in the face. PLEASE HELP

Hi Gentle,

The scene is full of frightenengly PC people who stereotype according to what they think is right, society in general may stereotype according to what they think is right or what they fear, so no wonder you're confused!

This is my observation for what it's worth:

1. What sex you are in your brain, what sex you are in your mind, and what sex you are in your body can be totally different things. The first thing to be sure of is for the mind and brain to be agreed on the same message. The body thing is just cosmetic and changeable, although not exactly a pain-free and easy process by any means.

2. What sex your brain and mind are and what sex you fancy do not have to be opposite or the same, and can even be both, either, or hermaphrodite.

To give a totally non-PC answer to your question, I guess the slaps in the face will stop when you give up presenting your face to be slapped and start enjoying life for yourself 😉

I hope this helps and that you take it as intended [&:]

RE: Another slap in the face. PLEASE HELP

Dear GentleMan

I'm much impressed by your courage and insight.
It's easy to forget on HP just how blinkered some people in the 'outside' world are, or how selfish, or how they're simply not equipped by life to cope with many situations.

So please don't take it too hard when your ex-colleague fails to affirm you in your journey. He didn't condemn anything, just basically said (a little clumsily) he couldn't find anything to say. But there are lots of HP-ers who are happy to listen and try to understand.

Do you belong to any trans-gender support groups? I think it could be an important source both of information and of peer support. (Presumably you don't think it's terribly rare? I once accidentally found myself booked into a huge transgender/TV Bed & Breakfast for New Year - though I'm ashamed to confess that as neither I nor the nice but alarmed lesbian lady there had been expecting it, (we only brought trousers), we did make our apologies...)

It's a hugely important journey of self-discovery, self-acceptance and transformation you're on and I'm not surprised you've had months of poor health and huge stress. But I hope and pray that you can sometimes look in at your situation from the outside and grin a little too. What a momentous life, after all - and when you're not feeling horribly ill, I hope there are some things to laugh about.

My mother is probably a little younger than yours, but I've already had to accept that whereever I may look to be heard and understood, she is past being the best choice. I'm more like a parent to her than the other way round, now that she has retired. I don't lie to her, but I give her edited excerpts of my life that I know she can digest. Once we're adults our parents will no longer give us the acceptance we crave in the way we wanted it as children. Perhaps because we had the temerity to grow up into something they didn't plan, to have ideas and tastes of our own? I don't know - I just know that the answer is inside us, and not with our folks.

Good luck to you and hang in there. And do a bit of googling for a support network, if you haven't already. Just one thing - don't introduce Caren to anyone whose rejection you can't deal with. Start off with a support group and an anonymous outside life, to get into the swing of it. NewAgeLondon's comment about stopping presenting your face to be slapped maybe hits the nail on the head!

All best to you
BigVoice[sm=cat.gif]

RE: Another slap in the face. PLEASE HELP

Dear Colin (and Caren!)

I visited your website and read your articles. As a fellow male on the journey of Life, we are brothers, and i would like to share an insight with you.

I'm not going to quote your excellent writing, since others may read it if they wish, but on the basis of what I read I can see where you are coming from.

Your write of your experiences eloquently, i might add.

My gloves are off here for this but i intend no offense to anyone.

Gender confusion or anything of that ilk within either men or women is a natural expression of an internal occurance.

That internal occurance is the experience in manifestation (mentally, emotionally or physically) of the playing out of the souls range of expression with the vehicle of expression, experienced by the personality as mind/body/emotions.

As has been written by MANY, we all have both male and female in us. I must stress most profusely at this point that by 'male' and 'female' i mean qualities, not gender identity or anatomy, or hormones or anything like that.

What is happening is that as you connect with your female aspects within, they seek expression as part of your souls unfoldment. The complete lack of understanding of the true role of gender gives rise to the type of treatment options presented in the West, and as you so rightly point out in your article, there are no publicly visible true role models for males around in the world right now.

This leaves men with few places to turn to help them in unfolding their maleness - which includes understanding their femaleness!

there are reasons for this, but thats not for here. The point here is that it is the seeking to express and integrate the Inner Female that causes some men to adopt the only association their social self has, or can find, to express that female.

This manifests as anything from homosexuality to cross-dressing to transsexualism. Note that there are other causes of these, but they are all to do with either over-or-under expression and lack of understanding of either the male or the female within. This applies to both men and women.

I am being bold in my statements because i am attempting to hammer home an important truth without much space to do it in. Im not offering you a concept for consideration - im telling you how it is at a causal level and you can choose whether to accept that or not. (I am not looking to start a debate in discussing varieties of expression or effect, but only with the cause. so please - i dont want to get into individual conversations with people regarding sexuality, see my note at the bottom)

Western doctors offer surgery as the only thing they can do to help a dis ease they do not understand, and cannot treat. This is because their sheer skill is with the physical. Psychologists and counsellors are drafted in to ensure the patient is of sound body and mind to go through such a dramatic change, and to ensure they are not just 'going through a phase'. Their job is to establish if the situation is one which has a known issue as the cause, in which case they do what they can, but otherwise, they simply have to concur that the patient is able to undergo this procedure.

In both cases, it is treating the effects, the symptoms, and not the cause. If they knew better, i guarantee you any doctor would do what they could to help.

They cannot however, so all they can do is offer support, and the aesthetics of moulding your exterior to look like a woman.

You are a man experienced in his journey in life. Yet we are all susceptible to the constraints and 'rules' of society. The emphasis society places on exterior means that to the conditioned mind, when the inner female starts to make itself felt, the individual looks for ways to express it on the exterior, since that is all they know. When you look around, you see something that 'kinda fits' and so pursue it. This is when we see the familiar manifestation of 'task adoption'. Since we do not in g

RE: Another slap in the face. PLEASE HELP

Dear Magpie

In your first reply to GentleMan you mentioned inner child work. There is currently a thread in the Mind Therapies forum, subject Parent, Adult and Child, in which I have just posted links to Parks Inner Child Therapy (PICT) sites.

You also referred above to the John Bradshaw book 'Homecoming', which is also given in the PAC thread, along with some others.

I hope to return later to respond to other points raised in this thread, but to do so requires rather more time and thought than the brief factual info given above!

Best wishes,

Holistic

RE: Another slap in the face. PLEASE HELP

Thank you one and all for your replies. I must admit to being rather blown over by the length of Magpie's post. It is really detailed and thought provoking. I have had to print it out just so I can read it several times.

We do get caught up in the bipolar male v female world. I am still hooked into the matrix of this society in which we live. There seems to be very few ways to express ourselves, our REAL SELF, to everyone because they have certain expectations of how we should be to make them feel comfortable. For those on the fringe of society, or what society thinks is the fringe, has a very difficult life just 'being'.

There is a merging happening. We are, both male and female, merging in to one to become a simple reflection of what the Source has been all along - i.e. balanced.

My difficulty stems from being unable to find that balance. That is what my particular life, my journey is about. My ultimate goal is to become both Caren and Colin at the same time with the attributes of both in the one vessel of expression. However, if the vessel prefers one expression more than the other then I cannot stop that happening. That preference weighs on the side of Caren at the moment and may well change as I move through the experiences of life.

As New Age London said, the brain, mind and body can have different messages. At the present time, my brain and mind say I am female, the body says I am male. I am sexually attracted to women and not men. I suppose I could understand a bit more if I was homosexual and was attracted to men.

Certainly, inner child work may highlight stuff that I need to look at. I will see what workshops resonate with me.

As with BigVoice's recommendation, I will look for further support from transgender groups. I am already currently a member of three groups but as yet don't use their knowledge nearly enough.

Thanks to you for your support.

Colin.

RE: Another slap in the face. PLEASE HELP

Dear Colin

I cannot offer any practical or thought-provoking advice but just wanted to say I hope you find the answers you are looking for and your journey becomes easier. [sm=hug.gif]

RE: Another slap in the face. PLEASE HELP

Hi Colin

yes there was quite a lot to read through! So heres some more...

There is a merging happening. We are, both male and female, merging in to one to become a simple reflection of what the Source has been all along - i.e. balanced.

Yes, this is the case - but social conditioning has distorted our perception of what this actually means. This move towards unity and balance does not mean male and female qualities are both expressed in the same fashion

This is too convoluted to go into on a single thread - the workshop i am writing on this topic is already 2 days long and looks like its heading for a 5 day intensive at this rate!! This is to give you an idea of how much there is to cover in transforming our understanding of 'gender role'

The qualities of male and female within us do require expression, integration and understanding. This does not mean that the socially externalised norm is the manner in which to accomplish this, although this can be a route to true understanding.

I wish I could clearly put it down here for you. the manner in which Men and Women deal with their inner opposite should be different - yet society teaches us to deal with, and express them, in the same way. There are reasons for this, and you can track in history how this distorted model has come about. This is the cause of the average modern androgynous, directionless being who does not know why they do x, y or z, or why they react like x, y or z - or that they can do something about it.

My ultimate goal is to become both Caren and Colin at the same time with the attributes of both in the one vessel of expression. However, if the vessel prefers one expression more than the other then I cannot stop that happening. That preference weighs on the side of Caren at the moment and may well change as I move through the experiences of life.

See my above note. I keep my gloves off here, but i say this as gently as i can, and with the utmost respect, but with the incisive intention to penetrate to your deepest motivations

Why do you feel the need to express your femaleness as a Woman? You are not sexually attracted to Men, but to women. You want to be both Colin and Caren. Your femaleness will express itself in whichever manner you choose so why do you choose 'a Woman' as that manner?

List the issues in your life that make you think you are a woman. Look at those now - Do those things make you a woman? Can they ever make you a woman?

Also - list the health problems you have. When did these start? Keeping the gloves off: It is more likely that your illness, depression and general low energy etc is because of the manner of expression of your femaleness, and the impact it has had on your life and the people in it....why else do you think it makes you so sad? Its not because of the 'pain of being a man when you are a woman inside'. Its far more likely that this sadness is the inner souls despair at trying to express this facet of Self, through the chosen vehicle, which is male, and the sadness is that this isnt quite coming out as planned.

As the Soul/Self presents and opens the way to the inner female, the personality has to USE that information and make it real in the outside world. to me the sadness here comes not from the quality seeking expression, but from the manner of expression chosen. When we first learn to express any part of our self - do we ever get it right first time? The first time you were ever angry, or in love, or sad - did you, could you express it the way you wanted? can you even now? expressing our inner opposite is no different. Do you still express anger as screaming, shouting and crying as you did as a toddler? Have you refined this, cultivated your self-control and response ability? Your femaleness is NO DIFFERENT to this. It is just another facet of the wonderful being that you are.

However, society is supporting the idea that this means you are 'X' type of pe