Interesting Info on CFS, MCS etc.

I don't have time to read the article now, but I'll definitely look at it while I'm having lunch. Thanks for that.

Thanks for bringing this to our attention, Cosmicjazzer. There are many of us here on HP with these problems.

It is easier to access using <a class="go2wpf-bbcode" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href=" http://sprident.com/martin-pall/ "> http://sprident.com/martin-pall/ - it's a long and detailed document.

I am absolutely delighted to hear that a brain surgeon is interested in Martin Pall's findings. Dr Pall, a biochemist, has had a difficult time trying to persuade the medical profession of his research results - so many had jumped on the bandwaggon of deciding ME etc was psycological on the back of just one paper published in the late (I believe)1970's and it has been hard to shift. A measurable biochemical result is what is needed, but I understand that as nitrous oxide/peroxynitrite process happens in the cells and mitochondria at the speed of parts of a second it is very hard to measure, except as an end result.

I have been aware of Dr Pall's NO/ONOO theory for at least 7 years. He met a blank wall as far as the medical profession was concerned. It was the first time I read something that made sense about ME/CFS/FM/MCS. I hope it doesn't take any much longer for this to be further acknowledged and accepted and to find some answers that the medical profession will accept. In fact the sooner the medics get back to biochemistry the better for us all :rolleyes:.

At least Pall has some suggestions as to how to deal with these problems, but because most of the remedies are nutritional supplements I've no doubt many doctors will dismiss them as irrelevant.

Thanks for bringing this to our attention, Cosmicjazzer. There are many of us here on HP with these problems.

At least Pall has some suggestions as to how to deal with these problems, but because most of the remedies are nutritional supplements I've no doubt many doctors will dismiss them as irrelevant.

Thank you Caroline. You're no doubt also aware of the work of Dr. Jacob Teitelbaum, who wrote a book called "From Fatigued To Fantastic." His treatment suggestions are mentioned by Pall as being compatible with his (Pall's) theory. I notice on Teitelbaum's site that it is possible to have a half hour consultation with his assistant, Cheryl Alberto (I'm not sure if this means a phone consultation), for $45. Also on this site are suggestions for lab tests to help optimise a treatment plan. I remember reading somewhere that Dr T's treatments were shown to be effective in a placebo controlled, double blind study.

My intention, with reference to my own MCS, is to try such a treatment protocol combined with work on the level of subtle energies (eg. Qi Gong) + detoxification (eg. exercise as appropriate + FIR sauna). Teitelbaum's site is:

Just found some more interesting info! None other than a register of UK MDs who practise 'ecological medicine'. Perhaps more relevant to MCS than CFS... but some of these docs do specialise in CFS:

Woohoo!! 🙂

Some more info from Dr Pall:

And here's details of his over the counter nutritional support protocol for downregulating the NO/ONOO cycle:

Anyone thinking of trying this, please take note of the warnings re. mercury towards the end of the page.

These supplements are available from a company called Allergy Research Group, who, it seems, do have a UK branch...

Thanks for this link. I have interviewed Martin Pall before and his theory is very interesting, but it is one component of the many things going on with CFS sufferers. Also interesting to read is Dr Cheney's work, Jacob Teitelbaum, Optimum Health Clinic's videos on YouTube provide some great insights, Dr Lam (for the adrenal exhaustion component), Dr Meirleir etc. Here are some links:

This site has a lot useful information and the forums are a good source of info too [url]Phoenix Rising: Supporting ME/CFS and NEI Patients[/url].
[url]Chronic Fatigue Syndrome Research - CheneyResearch.com[/url] - hefty subscription fee so it's worth just searching online for Dr Cheney's research and information.
Dr Teitelabaum's site [url]CFS & Fibromyalgia Solutions for Patients and Their Doctors[/url]
Useful videos from the Optimum Health Clinic, but they do charge an absolute fortune to get treatment [url]freedomfromme's Channel - YouTube[/url]
Dr Lam's info on adrenal fatigue is useful, but with regards to his protocol I didn't like that he says the vitamins he promotes have no affiliation to him, but actually the company is run by his son - [url]DrLam.com - The Authority on Natural Medicine[/url]
Dr Meirleir is said to be very good and focuses on the problems CFS sufferers have with the gut bacteria first. He also focuses on using anti-virals [url]Kenny de Meirleir - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url] and [url]Invest in ME - ME/CFS Conference - Dr. Kenny De Meirleir[/url]. Someone in this post is discussing their treatment protocol with him [url]My visit to Prof. De Meirleir in Belgium[/url].
Dr Byron Hyde explains the different between ME and CFS, which is interesting as ME is a measurable clinical condition but CFS is a group of symptoms. He says that most CFS sufferers have an underlying disease such as cancer, diabetes, thyroid problem etc, that has not yet been diagnosed[url]Nightingale - About our founder[/url].

Thanks Dawn for that info. I'll add just one extra link, this being to Dr Sarah Myhill's site. She has a lot to say about CFS. Her model differs from NO/ONOO. My guess is that different models may actually be applicable to different people. Tests may be ordered through Myhill's site...

Just found some more interesting info! None other than a register of UK MDs who practise 'ecological medicine'. Perhaps more relevant to MCS than CFS... but some of these docs do specialise in CFS:

[url]British Society for Ecological Medicine » List of registered practitioners[/url]

Woohoo!! 🙂

This is a particularly helpful list. Thank you 😀 I must now read the rest of the references - time permitting!

Well I've got two more discoveries to add to this thread. One being the writer and MD Sherry Rogers. She writes in great depth about detoxification, which I believe is a very important piece of my own jigsaw, at least, and seems to truly know her stuff (unlike some other writers on the subject!). Lots of very useful information in the following book:
[url]Detoxify or Die: Amazon.co.uk: Sherry A. Rogers: Books[/url]

Rogers writes much on the value of far infra red saunas, as does Sarah Myhill (whose site is very informative btw. see my previous post). This type of sauna is cooler than a conventional sauna and has proven detoxification effects. Rogers writes that some substances may only be removed through this means. See the following page for Myhill's thoughts about FIR saunas and where to buy them. There are portable models available from £169 btw.
[DLMURL] http://www.drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/Detoxing_-_Far_Infrared_Sauna_(FIRS) [/DLMURL]

For some reason the above link doesn't seem to work properly. To get to the right page you'll need to make sure that the final character of the above address is showing in your browser's address bar. ie. the address should end (FIRS) not (FIRS

I'd like to add some more info to this thread. Firstly I'd like to say that I'm feeling significently better since following the detox regime given in Dr Sherry Roger's book: Detoxify Or Die, and I'd recommend this regime to anyone. However I'm not 100% right yet so have been looking around for a truly expert practitioner who can get all the appropriate tests done and who will know what to do with that info.

My investigations led me to to the work of Dr Mark Hyman. He's a celebrity doctor in the US who himself had MCS/CFS. Here' s one vid by him:
[url]Mark Hyman at TEDMED 2010 - YouTube[/url]

After being impressed by the books of Dr Hyman I did some searching for practitioners of Functional Medicine (the model Hyman uses) in THIS country (UK). Here's THE link for these practitioners:
[url]Institute for Functional Medicine[/url]

Wishing good health and joy to all!

Immune system down

I found this thread interesting as I am at the moment suffering with an on going virus which is really getting me down now.

My GP took some blood tests on Friday, so I am awaiting the results.

Back in the 1980's I had a similar thing which I knew was my immune system, a natural health practitioner treated me with Echinacea and Devils Claw. I eventually recovered. it took about 12 months.

This latest flare up I am pretty sure started with antibiotics a couple of months ago for a chest infection. I then had to work hard in the garden to clear a thorn bush as I had a new fence being erected. I scratched myself badly, legs and arms. For two days I was absolutely exhausted, I went for a tetanus jab as some of the scratches were quite deep.
Then I went down with a sinus infection, had antibiotics, I finished those but still felt unwell and had a different type of antibiotics.. I did feel better then this hit me and for the past week I feel exhausted. Chills sore throat. feeling sick at times. Not much appetite.
I do have Parkinsons Disease so already suffer with pain at times. I have a bad tremor
in my right arm. Diagnosed 2 years ago, I am not on medication.

I am really getting down with this as I live alone. I don't think my adult children realise how unwell I feel.. I am having the odd panic attack when my temperature goes up.
I'm taking multi vits and minerals, natural yoghurt, cod liver oil capsules.
Just need a kick to get me out of this down mood.:( Doc gave me a low dose of anti depressants but I haven't taken it. Very anti tablet. prefer natural remedies.
Any advice would be welcome.
Cicely

Hi Cicely - welcome to Healthypages :wave:

So sorry to hear you have these health problems. It will be interesting if the blood tests pick up anything. There are a couple of suggestions that may help if you have no contra-indications to theri use:

Is it possible for you to take some extra vitamin C and zinc to boost your immune function? - about 2-3000mg vit C in divided doses and 30-45mg zinc - you can get this from almost any chemist/supermarket as tablets that dissolve into a drink.

I would also suggest making smoothies using bio yoghurt, berries, and fresh fruit with fresh juice or green tea. This will help get some plant nutrients (and probiotics) into you in a more easily digested state. are a must to replace beneficial bacteria killed off by the antibiotics - these bacteria support your immune system, 80% of which is situated in the gut.

Echinacea and goldenseal might be helpful too (not to be taken for more than 10 days at a time).

Hope you get back on your feet soon

All the best.

Thank you

Thank you CarolineN,
I had my worst night last night, woke at 3.30am feeling shivery and unwell. Aching shivery legs, the aching radiating from the bottom of my spine down my legs to my knees. felt sick. then my stomach was very upset. Had paracetamol and a couple of valerian to try and calm down. I got up about 5am still feeling ill.

I went to see my GP at 11am he said my blood test was fine. I have handed in a stool sample today.

He said it could be post viiral fatigue and gave me a prescription for ibruprofen. which I doubt I shall take unless absolutely desperate my stomach already feels sore.
My throat looks fine he said but I know it is sore and swollen low down and it hurts to move my head around. I think that is what makes me feel sick.
I know I may have to stick this out for some time but its not easy whan you are alone.
Thank you anyway caroline, 🙂
I shall try and follow your advice.
Kind regards,
cicelyday.

I don't know what part of the country you are in but could you get to a registered [url]Nutritional therapist [/url]or a herbalist to help support you back to health?

Your Dr sounds a bit like the one who didn't want to wnte a referral for my husband to see a chiropractor/sports injury therapist for a semi dislocated shoulder - said to go home and take some paracetamol and rest it!! My OH has a full time job on a farm - rest is not an option at this time of the year :eek:. He did write one in the end and the injury is healing nicely. The acual damage could have taken ages to mend otherwise.

Do keep posting - I hope others will answer you too.

Cyber hugs :hug: and hope you have a better night.

Thank you Caroline

Thank you Caroline, I had a pretty restless night.

I find my eyes feel tremendously tired, like i could sleep at any hour of the day. This has been on going for some time.
I have managed apple juice with elder flower today and chicken soup, plus a piece of toast this morning. One of my sons dropped off some Soluble Vit C with Zinc tablets plus some CoQ10, which I know is also good for my Parkinsons. Hopefully my appetite is returning. My lower throat feel very swollen and slightly sore. still, I have gargled with salt water a few times.

I am very independant, always have been and that hasn't helped me really, I try to cope with everything single handed and I suppose my children are so used to it they don't really think I might need help, Even when I was diagnosed with Parkinsons I didn't really react. A lot of people go through a grieving process. I just carried on. Even one of the neurologists said he thought I was remarkable. Maybe its time I stopped being so independant, so brave and strong.:)

I have found a heat pad an absolute boon when I am aching.

As for a nutritionist, I think that might be rather expensive for me at this time.
I went to a herbalist in Troon and his clinic in London occasionally when I had a similar thing years ago. I still read his books and follow his advice to a certain extent.about the immune system.
I am so grateful for this site, it is true what they say, A problem shared is a problem halved.
Best wishes:)
cicelyday