Any suggestions on coping with Post Viral Fatigue??

I have a friend who recovered from the same by having reflexology. She then went on to train in reflexology as she was so impressed by it. I would also suggest EFT &/or reiki.

Have faith in whatever method you choose. IMO opinion the best cure for EVERYTHING is positive thought. Every day, in every way, you are getting healthier and stronger.
Good luck and lots of joy to you!

~jay~
x

Patricia

First let me say I think the list of things you are doing is excellent.

I have not had Post Viral Fatigue but I have worked with a number of people who have and who have found EFT beneficial in their recovery journey. Although it can be a profound and subtle therapy used with an experienced therapist, it can also be a very effective self-help tool. And there are a number of sources of free resources that might help you to explore if you think it could be for you. It can be useful both for current symptoms and for dealing with any underlying issues that may have increased your vulnerability.

If you wanted to get an excellent, clear book that does not assume any previous knowledge I would recommend the one by Paul and Val Lynch. On the main EFT website, , there is free e manual you can download and a load of other information.

Best wishes for your full recovery

Judy Byrne, EFT Master

Hi,
I suffered from chronic fatigue so now how you feel. I found reflexology helped me immensely. I also took up tai chi but that was more because my balance was also affected and so had trouble walking. Someone recommended yoga to me also. Lymphatic Drainage massage is also recommended as helps the immune system. When you're immobile lymph fluid can't circulate and so toxins build up making the problem worse. Therefore any form of massage would help this but particularly lymph drainage.
The main advice I can give though is don't over do it, it can be frustrating when you have a bit of energy to go for a walk etc but it can make you feel worse the next day and then your back to square one. Build your activity up gradually, rest if you need to and learn your limits.

Hope this is of help
Sarah

Hi there

In 2002 I had post viral fatigue syndrome after a dose of shingles. The shingles went after about 10 days, the pain went soon after, but what I wasn't prepared for was the deep, deep depression which lasted months.

What helped most was the knowledge that I could do nothing about it. Yes I know that's paradoxical but I just felt a deep sense of relief when the doctor told me to go home, go to bed, keep taking the tablets and relax!

What helped is a little hard to say. I can certainly recommend reiki, but it found me two years later. In the meantime my father had been ill and died and I gave up my job to look after him. Also I took lots of vitamins, and treated life as a bit of a holiday.

I think you're doing great. Just keep in mind that it's a long journey, and love yourself. Be your own best friend.

I've had it, thankfully just on and off, for exactly 20 years. And it went away for the last two years. How strange that you post on it now, as it has all returned for me, big-time.

I'l try to keep my eye on the thread and read what others have to say. I have never found a "cure" TBH, but also don't know a "cause", since it just appears from nowhere even at the best of times when there is no physical or mental stress in my case.

I am very lucky as in my case it has never lasted more than a few days, then it goes again. I was at work with it yesterday and to be honest, every moment was just a nightmare. Yet others would not understand, and I didn't tell people about it.

Venetian xxx

Sorry to hear you are suffering with post-viral fatigue. I do sympathise.

I had it for several years after a bout of glandular fever. I could set my watch by the time I fell asleep each day. I fell asleep in the middle of a pop concernt at Wembley Arena once, I was that tired.

What really helped me at the time, back in early 1990s, was homeopathy. It really kick started my system and got me back on the road to recovery. I only took one course of remedy but that was enough for me.

I didn't really know about reflexology and reiki back then, but as a practitioner now I would also recommend both of these treatments too.

Hope you start to feel better soon.

Sx

Hi Patricia,

I hope you are still reading these replies on this forum? I am actually very grateful that you posted, as it lets me vent too, and to open up, and hear about others' experiences. I didn't write much in my last post as I had to lie down, due to ME!

So I'll just share a few things about myself and ME. In a way I feel "guilty" as I have never till this year had ME apart from short bursts, but I have certainly had those, and they go back to a huge viral outbreak at a European conference I attended in 1988: just about everyne there got very ill.

Symtoms? Everything really. ME is by nature depressive, but it is mainly for me the bodily effects: it is hard to do anything but lie down, though I do fight that; and my mind goes fuzzy too. Sounds familiar? But with me it kept quickly going away again, and I think about 2 years have passed with no ME so there really is hope; it can just go away; but over the last 5 weeks I have had it back and it has been quite a problem.

I don't know if medics all accept it as being real now? they used to be so sceptical. I had a course with a "specialist" at a London hospital, and you know what? I had made her swear that she took me seriously and she did. Then on my third appointment her phone rang - I was fine at the time and to kill time I read a letter she had which was upside-down to me. I read that she was a "specialist" in psychosomatic medicine i.e. she had totally lied to me. I wish I still had her name. I told her what I thought of that and never have gone back to any medics.

Anyway, all our cases may differ. Having had ME on and off for 20 years, one major thing, I can tell, which Chris above also says, is that it just makes matters worse to fight it. It goes against the grain, I know, as we are all up and doers. But I have tested it carefully, such as doing sport with it - big mistake!

The only thing I know to do, and I know of no magic cure and wouldn't trust such, is to rest when your body says you have to. With me at least, if I rest, over days it goes away. Does yours not go away?

Best wishes and much Love to you,

Venetian

Hi everyone,

As an Holistic Therapist I will pop my little bit down, if that is OK? This may have no bearing on your conditions at all. But this is how as a therapist I was trained and often find this helps people to understand their bodies better and is the first little chat I have with clients who present with an illness. A lot of it is obvious but sometimes it helps to relax people to know that their bodies are usually working for them and not against them as they may think.

Oh and I too have suffered with dreadful energy issues after my last two children. Literally thought my body was shutting down at one point. But I am much, much better now and am pushing forward in life again.

As always, I have to state these are just my opinions and how I was trained and work in Holistic Therapies:

Illness symptoms is your bodies way of telling you there is an imbalance (no kidding:rolleyes:). Many of the symptoms you feel when you are unwell are created by your body in reaction to the toxin, virus, parasite etc., that is present.

During illness your body automatically tries to heal itself and will do its best to force you to stop to allow it to divert as much energy as possible to the area of contention. Often after illness the toxin is not totally dispelled from the system because we haven’t allowed full healing to occur and so it will sit there in the background and raise its ugly head at every opportunity.

Holistic therapies and other mind and body therapies can force a healing reaction where the toxins are forced out of the body, hence why Reflexology has been mentioned here a number of times, it is a very precise therapy. But at a time of healing, depending on how badly your body is under attack the healing process in itself can make you feel worse than the illness itself! This is then often referred to as a ‘healing crisis’.

At a time of healing it is vital to mentally and physically give way to your body, otherwise you could stop the healing and be back at square one again. Unfortunately in the Western world we have forgotten this and trudge on regardless.

There are a number of ways to deal with a healing crisis or illness. Here are just a couple to start and important IMHO:


***Drink plenty of water to help flush the toxins out. Vital in good health. Water is the elixir of life.

Keep toxic foods and drink to an absolute minimum or totally cut them out of your diet if you can, at least while you are healing. Digestion requires huge amounts of energy so adding toxic substances into this system really, really slows down healing.

Meditate each day in whatever way is best for you, pay homage to your body and accept this healing time. Use the power of your mind to help your body heal.

Take time off work, the longer you divert your energy elsewhere the longer your body will take to heal. (Easier said than done I know. But there it is)

Rest, rest, rest!!! Relax, relax, relax!!! Heal, heal, heal!!!

Oh, did I say rest, relax and heal?

Maybe other therapists can add more to the list?


Love and healing to all,

Rachel xXx

Hi- as a complementary therapist, I'd like to endorse everything in the previous post.-And I think it's important to do that, because I know how desperate many people diagnosed with ME can get, and looking for help and support is a priority for them.
I practise homeopathy and do find that it helps many people with ME, partially for some, and for others more deeply, such that their lives turn around completely. They often need more than one or two sessions and of course, I'm biased, but I'd recommend it to anyone that's suffering. If you don't feel attracted to that- then many other therapies that work also by rebalancing life energy ar definitely worth trying.
Doctors struggle with ME and so what is there to lose by trying an alternative approach? HTH Hom

Hi there!

First of all thank you SO MUCH for your replies, helpful advice and good wishes - it is nice to know there are so many decent people out there and it really made my day (ok... sad i know!)

I should have mentioned yesterday that I have tried reiki and found it was a real turning point in my general well being. In fact I am in the middle of studying reiki at the moment and try to do a little on myself everyday.

Thanks for the tip about the water, I think it does help. However I do find it difficult to maintain - I'm usually really good for a week or two and then.......well you know how it is yourself.....any ideas :032:???

I have also tried Seaweed baths...anyone ever found this helpful? Don't laugh - yes it is a bath of piping hot water with real live seaweed....!! It doesn't relieve tiredness as such but it does give me a better sense of wellbeing and helps me sleep deeply - and that's always a plus! I have also tried adding Dead Sea Salts to my own bath at home as I am a bit suspect about over the counter products and the toxins they contain.

I eat porridge every morning, in fact I think I may have a slight addiction problem in that area - say nothing!!

I looked up the EFT website - looks interesting - anyone ever tried it? I think I might give the reflexology or the homeopathy a go.

I know patience is the key here, I am definitely not a country and western fan (no offence to anyone!) but Dolly Parton was on to something when she sang One Day at a Time.... although you are more likely to hear me muttering Sweet Jesus at any given moment these days!!!

Thanks again for all the replies and please keep posting your tips - however weird....

P xx

A day with out laughter is a day wasted.

As someone who has a progressive neuropathy and get fatigued, I find I pace myself. On good days, I tend to push myself and then I suffer the next day for it.

I know my limitations now and do jobs etc, in the morning when my energy levels are higher then chill out after about 3pm.

Let your body dictate the pace and listen to it.Thats my best advice.

Hi All,

Before I forget, there is a second reason for this post. I just want folk to know why I am not replying to posts or PMs, OK? The ME is the worst I have had in 20 years so it is a huge effort just to sit in front of this screen. I don't plan on doing it again today.

I cannot concentrate on reading, sorry about that, so I still have not read the posts here. But I will get better in time and be able to read, and talking to a dear friend it emerged that what I really need now is hope and tales of hope.

So my question is: has anyone had real ME, and it just went away for years, and it basically is gone from your life? I would love to hear any such stories, and when I am well again I will log on and read them.

V

M E

Hi everybody
I have a very dear friend who has been diagnosed with ME and I have been treating her with reflexology (Reiki is a little difficult for her to 'get'). Basically, the sooner you are diagnosed the better. she attends a support group at her local hospital, and, with support from her family and friends (including me) she is responding well and has had a phased return to work after a year. This is not to say that everybody will have the same journey as ME is very individual. I lent her a meditation book and cds and she tried to do these each day. Pacing is the massive issue she has to deal with - it is so difficult to do this on a day when you feel great!!!!
Please bear in mind that there is a light at the end of the tunnel, but you just don't quite know where the end of the tunnel is for you - it could even be around the next corner!
Take care, keep pacing, and well done on your progress so far.
Lesley

Are you interested incoping or getting rid of it? I see many clients with this issue, and I consider it a form of depression triggered by an emotional event. The shingles experience you describe is such.
So find a Hypno-analyst not a hypnotherapist, and seek the under lying cause, then it will go away. I know it works I've seen many clients successfully change their lives.
Before you settle on a hypno-analyst go and talk to them first, a good one will give you a free assessment. And if your happy to work with him then go for it. I say him because I feel often it is better to see a member of the opposite sex in this process, not always but in the main.
It usually takes about 6-8 sessions but could be up to 12, relies on you and the therapist.

Are you interested incoping or getting rid of it? I see many clients with this issue, and I consider it a form of depression triggered by an emotional event.

Please take this in the non-personal way in which it is meant. A word immediately springs to mind and it isn't personal to you - it's how I'd describe this attitude in general ...

This suggestion is basically insulting. People with post-viral almost always know that it is entirely physical in cause. The only riders to "insulting" is that maybe you've found some clients who really were low due to depression etc. That is not post-viral. You do not understand the problem: it is entirely physical. My own case (which is blessedly mild and very intermittent - I rarely actually have the symptoms, maybe not for a year at a time) along with others began typically: at a conference of 200, about 195 were hit by a massive Legionairre's-type virus.

ME / post-viral folk fought a battle, best as able, for years to get it recognised as a real, physical ailment - which it now usually is. Your post is from the ME Dark Ages of circa 1990. You don't understand the disease. I can speak for myself, and I'm on top of the world when my small and brief attacks hit, and was before the conference viral outbreak. People like you may be influenced by the fact that after an ME attack hits, then it has a somewhat depressing effect, yes. (It would, wouldn't it!) But people are normal, happy, and active beforehand - a cross-section of happy society.

There are known indications for proving that people have ME, though perhaps few bother to or can get to places where these tests are made. In the early or mid-1990s, for example, it was found that people with ME have a physical lack of blood supply for physical reasons flowing up into the central brain. Again, this is not psychosomatic or "emotional".

Sorry, but your post reminded me of someone suggesting that we get rid of cancer by blooding them as in medieval times. If you've helped depressed people, who have depression (which will, yes, make them feel low physically too) then that's great - it is not, however, the illness which is the topic of this thread IMO.

V

I am a tad confused!

I notice that 'lookintomyeyes' wrote that Post Viral Fatigue/ME is caused by depression.....(both in this thread and in the thread on ME and sleeping)
I have been to two doctors and two different consultants none of whom have diagnosed me with depression or offered me anti-depressants.

My undersanding from the information I have gathered is that depression can be a side effect of M.E./PVFS. This I can totally understand - there are days when I am so upset and frustrated and fedup with what is happening it freaks me out. But thankfully it lasts a day or so I have a good cry/moan/whinge and then get back on track and remember that patience, rest and that dreaded word PACING( which I don't think I will ever get the hang of!)....seems to be the key.

Anyone suffering or recovered from M.E./PVFS identify with this?

Anyone suffering or recovered from M.E./PVFS identify with this?

I'm actually very fortunate, currantybun, as while I certainly have had ME, unusually (I think) mine is very sporadic with short episodes. (I actually can't imagine how it would be if the symptoms went on for weeks or months ... ). But as for the causes or nature of ME, my post above gives my opinion.

V

HI- I can see that ME is physical in nature. But how do we know for sure whether it's physical in cause? This is a genuine question and is not meant to challenge anything specific in previous posts! Hom.

HI- I can see that ME is physical in nature. But how do we know for sure whether it's physical in cause? This is a genuine question and is not meant to challenge anything specific in previous posts! Hom.

I'd be interested if anyone has any up-to-date information on this too, as the last I know of, ME was still fairly mysterious. All I do know is that ME has been proven to coincide with physical data such as ME sufferers having a pronounced lack of blood supply to the brain, as demonstrated by MR scans - but what this means I don't know. What would be the cause of the lack of blood supply for example?

But another thing is that very many ME cases, though not all, appear to have their originas traceable back to some extremely bad viral infection; it's after some very bad viral infection that ME, in a few cases, then seems to enter into a person's system and life. This to me certainly indicates that ME is physical, but I don't know if anything more is really known about it these days?

V

Hi Venetian

I'm wondering how you manage to deal with those sporadic bursts of M.E....
And can you identify anything PRIOR to them in your lifestyle......do you think it's stress/diet/physical activity/all three.....or totally random??!

On a slight tangent - have you heard of the Lightning Process? Know anyone who tried it?

I think there is something in the blood supply thing.....when I increase the oxygen levels in my body by sitting out in the back garden I always experience a decrease in my physical pain.

Hi Patricia,

I haven't heard of the Lightning Process, no.

I've never identified anything whatsoever that sets them off, so I can't help there. Everything can be totally normal - no obvious stress at all, and physical exertion sure doesn't bring it on. The only extraordinary thing is the speed with which it comes and goes in my case. I go from normal to full-blown symptoms in 30-60 minutes ... but it doesn't take much longer when it goes away. A bit baffling, but I'd forgotten the condition and stopped thinking about it till this year as I went a long time, maybe at least 18 months, without a single day of it.

V

Hi All,

Just reading this thread as my friend has Post Viral Fatigue and I wanted to find out some more about it...

Have done some reading on the net and read this interesting 'fact' the other day it was basically saying that ME comes from the unconscious mind..of course people would let go of what it is that causes the fatigue if they consciously knew what it was...This made a lot of sense to me...so maybe the cure/help for it lies in healing the unconscious mind/becoming conscious of what lies therein...I know some deep acting flower remedies are good for this... is a good site explaining how they work,supplying them etc..

Another theory I read is that in 90% of cases of ME, Soul Retrieval is needed which also made sense as if a part of you is not fully there it would cause some energy loss/inbalance..
Info on what Soul Retrieval is
Q. What are the symptoms of soul loss?
Alcohol and drug abuse, all types of depression (including post-natal depression and Post Trauma) disempowerment, eating disorders, lack of motivation, inspiration and energy. Feeling stuck, M.E. mood swings, panic attacks, problems sleeping, self-harm, self-persecution, self-sabotage, suicidal tendencies, un-satisfying careers. Soul loss is often misdiagnosed by doctors due to their lack of appreciation and understanding of the impact that the soul has on the consciousness of the mind and body. In every case history of M.E. that we have analysed there has been serious soul loss.
From

Thanks for this thread I will send it to my friend...

Anna

Hello nice to see all this acticity on here and sharing of tips, very valuable and supportive

I have had me/pvfs whatever you want to call it for a year now and this is my opinion:

i reckon from talking to different people and reading threads on here etc that quiet often this illness comes to people who where previously very active energetic people. This is certainly true for me. I used to not stop, to take on loads of things, i had forgotten how to sit and do nothing.... and the BANG after a horribble bout of flu i had no choice but to stop!

so i think it seems like this illness has come in a very powerful way to tell us that this previous way of life is unsustainable. we have pushed the limits too far and our body needs a break... quiet possibly a very long break! and the only way out of this illness is to be calm, to be relaxed, to be patient, to listen to our bodies,and to be comfertable with ourselves which not only will help us get better but is also a more sustainable way of living and hopefully we can keep this lesson and live a more balanced fullfilled life.

my tips on getting better are as all the posts above and also i have just started doing qi-gong, a gentle martial arts a bit like ti chi, movements and breathing. it originates in china it works with acupunture points. I have so far found to very beneficial. I also see this illness as possibly the result of a blockage somewhere in the energy system and qi gong slowly but surely helps to re-balance the energy system. I belive in it, gently and slowly healing thyself! symyltaniously working with the mind and body, and being truly present in the moment.

also thinking positively, focus on the good points, even if it is having half an hour of energy a day. try and ignore the bad points even if it is being bed ridden for 23 and a half hours a day!

eatin well, no alcohol, but also alawing yourself a little treat sometimes

allowing yourself to put yourself first, even if it may feel selfish. i think that also there is a pattern form people with me to be caring sensitive indivduals who previously put other people first no matter what!

i am normally quiet good at being sensible and not overdoing it but very occasionally i just think f**k it and go out for a nights dancing regardless of the consequences! its hard to know if its beneficial or not as it does alway set me back physically but the release is amazing! and great for my metal well being! in my opinion it is worth the suffering i will later feel, i think it has kept me sane.

and finally in response to the most recent posts i think that the mind and body are inseperable and work together, so m.e is not all in the mind and it is not all due to the body. its a mixture of both and thats why a holistic view of positive thinking, gentle healing, gentle exercise and pacing will all help. i think its all about being nice to yourself, whether that is physical or mental or emotional or spiritual!

so this is what i think and how i deal with this illness. i truly belive though that it has coem to teach me a lesson and is making me a stronger person. it definatly makes me approciate the small things in life and i hope i will keep this attitude when i am better again.

my heart goes out to all of you

love fallen star x

Hi there

I can totally identify with never being able to sit. I found it almost impossible to relax..a few years back I tried Yoga and just couldn't stick it, I needed to get back to the gym and get my blood pumping.. A warning sign if ever there was one!

Originally Posted by hom [url][/url]
HI- I can see that ME is physical in nature. But how do we know for sure whether it's physical in cause? This is a genuine question and is not meant to challenge anything specific in previous posts! Hom.

I can say for me it was a case of emotional/soul exhaustion..I just wasn't taking care of my mind/body/spirit balance. in fact I have read somewhere that the Viral Infection that very often marks the start of M.E./PVFS is in fact one of the first symptoms not the cause.
I know its not true for everyone but it certainly struck a chord with me when I read it.

Thanks for the tip about Soul Retrieval.... I have read a really excellent book called 'CFS - A Call For Soulwork' and it certainly ties in with the idea that this illness is alerting us to an soul imbalance/loss in our lives.

thanks again to all of you for taking an interest in this thread, I love to re-read the posts - they are so supportive!

I can also relate to being a "go-getter" before ME began. However, let's be rational here. I think most people think of themselves in this way, or many people anyway. So this is not science.

TBH I continue to believe that it's largely a physical illness just as flu or cancer or warts are (acknowledging that there's a meataphysical aspect to all illness).

The thing about "soul retrieval" and going into what I consider the more wacky side of the New Age ... sorry, I disagree, and I feel that what's really needed is more real science, not psuedo-science, as the ailment is so real. We need real science here IMHO.

But all to their own opinions, and to be challenged in our beliefs is healthy. :):)

V

Medical science has developed medicines that can 'take away' physical symptoms but it is not easily able to develop a medicine that can 'give' us anything- such as energy. So.....is tapping into our current scientific understanding, the way forward? Could there be an allopathic medicine for ME?
The symptoms of ME are real enough and perhaps we shouldn't confuse doctors' inability to treat the condition, with acknowledgement that it actually exists.
So, given that the symptoms are of course real, is it possible that the root cause of them lies at an emotional or even spiritual level, and that the subsequent change of energy within us, ultimately results in the physical condition, ME (or any other illness come to that)?
Hom

So, given that the symptoms are of course real, is it possible that the root cause of them lies at an emotional or even spiritual level, and that the subsequent change of energy within us, ultimately results in the physical condition, ME (or any other illness come to that)?

IMHO, yes and no. Every illness or ailment - even breaking a leg or being in a car accident - can said to have an "energetic" cause: what was the karma involved, without which it wouldn't have happened, for instance? But that doesn't mean that blatently physical illnesses shouldn't be treated practically. For example, if you break a bone, you get it reset - you don't go to an homeopath or hypnotist.

The symptims of ME in my books - the symptoms - are quite physical and real: something is happening in the body. I'm posting again on this thread as I'm just coming out of a brief 3-day attack again. (I couldn't have sat up or concentrated to write this yesterday or Thursday.) I sense that there's a fine line between ME breaking out, or keeping it suppressed or under wraps, so I would agree that some 'energetic' type of treatment may help keeping it from manifesting. I may try homeopathy.

But to repeat myself, there was quite a 'political' battle waged many years ago just to get ME recognised in the first place as being real, physical, and not "in the mind". Antequated and backward b**d medics (excuse my Chinese) took years to convince that ME was not in the mind, through the 1980s and into the early 1990s. My doctor yesterday couldn't help at all, but instantly accepted its physical reality. It was for some people a humiliating or frustrating time twenty years ago to know that the body was dreadful in its physical symptoms, yet if you sought help you might get referred to a 'psychosomatic illness expert' as I did many years ago. The memory of that was rekindled by the (IMHO) unknowledgeable posts along these lines on HP recently - in 2008!

So I'd just like to affirm that I wasn't only happy before last Thursday - I was extremely happy and had every reason in life to be so. No cloud on the horizon. But I woke Thursday morning with ME rapidly taking over again. Tonight on Day 3 it appears (crossed fingers) to be fading again; but as I lay in bed I once more was thinking: "of course people are bly "depressed" when they have ME! - not before they have it, but once they've got it. If anyone would like to try these symptoms out for a few days, I'd like to see how they feel, and if 'hypnotism' would do them the slightest bit of good." If viral infections are psychosomatic, it's the first I've heard of it. :confused:

V

Hi Venetian
I'm sorry to hear you were unwell last week. Don't think for one single minute, that I'm suggesting your ME is caused by being depressed, and if my post came across like that, I'm sorry. I think it's much more complex than that and I can certainly relate to your frustration with the medical profession who often just don't seem to understand where their patients are coming from. You are right than in some health areas, we just don't seem to have moved on in our understanding at all.Perhaps, steer clear of them? Obviously, as a homeopath I'm biased in saying, try homeopathy, but it might be worth a go.
(For general knowledge, there are homeopathic medicines that help to heal bone fractures extremely quickly by the way- most people don't realise the extent of the use of the medicines-more's the pity!). Hom

Don't think for one single minute, that I'm suggesting your ME is caused by being depressed, and if my post came across like that, I'm sorry.

Ah, no need for the apology. I had an earlier post in mind, not yours, but mostly that earlier post reminded me of how in the past folk with ME were not treated seriously (it was an 'imaginary illness'). I experienced being repeatedly lied to by a hospital specialist when I asked her several times to confirm (and she did) that she was taking the ME symptoms seriously ... and then I discovered that she was an 'expert' only in psychosomatic illness. Was I angry? Let's just say that this was about 16 years ago and I've never sought allopathic help since.

V