Gall stone

RE: Gall stone

Blue Sparrow

you will find useful info on this previous thread

gall stone colic is a severe pain, likened to childbirth. The standard painkiller in maternity units is pethidine, and we use pethidine tablets for gallstone pain as it is so unpleasant.

so - worth trying a cleanse for decongesting the gallbladder - PM me for details. strict low fat diet to avoid provocation - and hopefully avoiding need for nasty strong painkillers [:'(]

with love & light - Doq xxx

RE: Gall stone

Doq, with all due respect, I have had my gall bladder removed after a final diagnosis of disease, and I had a history of mis-diagnosis. I had Jaundice and was rushed to hospital due to the fact a GP thought I had a case of Heliocopacter Pylori ( did not) ! and gave me three sets of medication to eliminate this, and then when I got no better I was told I had an Ulcer and received further medication which landed me in hospital.

I went Private, at great cost of course! The Consultant told me immediately what was wrong. As I needed surgery they could not do this until the Jaundice had gone, so I was put on Steroids. This got my Liver back to near normal.

I asked about a cleanse and was told how dangerous they could be. If for example you have large stones, they could be stuck in the tubes, the biliary ducts, leading to infection or inflammation of the gallbladder (cholecystitis) blockage of the biliary ducts leading to the duodenum (biliary obstruction) leading to the Liver and Pancreas and you could die.

You do not know how large your Gall Bladder stones are until you have a scan. If you undertake this self medication with large stones you could be endangering your life.

When I recovered I went to college, took A&P for two years and learnt a lot more about the human body.

Everything I learnt confirmed how dangerous it is to undertake any such procedure without full knowledge of what lies within!

Gilly

RE: Gall stone

Gilly, with all due respect, your personal medical history does not seem very relevant here - I am of course saddened to hear you had an unpleasant time, but it does not seem to justify a mini-rant about the dangers of cleanses, LOL.

In the thread linked to this discussion, the importance of correct diagnosis of gallstones by ultrasound was stated. The scan shows the size of any stones, and the most appropriate form of treatment can then be chosen; in most cases the material in the gall bladder is sludge/gravel consistency. Using an appropriate cleansing regime, this material becomes very soft, and is easily pushed out - as I have observed many times in users of the method (including myself x2 😮 ) - without ever encountering any of the "horror story" problems you describe. If dealing with the less usual bigger gallstones, especially when calcified, then surgical treatment would be first choice.

I am slightly surprised you put out this worst case scenario given by the consultant - it sounds like the typical scare-mongering attack on a form of management of which the specialist probably had no experience, and I would have expected a different attitude from an administrator on HP.
Are you still carrying a lot of emotional charge over this episode??

As stated, I am happy to give advice to Bluesparrow by PM - although not having your training, Gilly, I can only hope that 5 years at med school and 4 years post grad training, followed by nearly 30 years clinical experience will allow me to give some reasonable tips 😉

with love & light - Doq xxx

RE: Gall stone

But Doq, others on HP have been warned about giving that specific bit of advice about a cleanse. Obviously you've pointed out previously that a scan needs to be done first, but there are others out there that would be skim-reading the 'answers' desperately looking for pain relief/general relief from this horrid condition (I'm awaiting a scan for the same at the moment) - although you kept it to a PM request for further info, there are other places you can get it, and I'm guessing that's where Gilly was coming from.

I got quite angry on Gilly's behalf with your sarcasm-dripping last line, Doq. I respect your training, don't get me wrong, but it's not just Gilly who's had bad experiences with doctors who don't know how to go about diagnosing certain conditions. A pal of mine nearly died from pancreatitis after being sent hom by his GP - for over 18 months he was treated for many things including gastroenteritis amongst other things. When he was sent home by a doctor from A&E after a particularly debilitating attack of stomach pain, he collapsed in the car park on the way back to the car. It was only when his wife took him back in and said, "We're not leaving here until you run some tests and find out what's really wrong with him," that they found out what he had. Over the next 12 hours he developed janudice, so when poor Gilly was finally diagnosed, she must have been really suffering [sm=hug.gif]

It seems so many people are having their gallbladders removed at the moment (I personally know of 3 in the last month). This is surely down to misdiagnosis as well as waiting lists for scans. So, again with respect, Doq, you can see why people are encouraged to question doctors.

Bluesparrow, I really hope your mum finds some relief for her pain soon, I know what she's going through. Big hug for you, your mum, Gilly and Doq [sm=grouphug.gif]

RE: Gall stone

Thank you Red Bess, for your support.

I also took exception to your post Doq, unusual, as I enjoy reading your thoughts.[&o]

Frankly however many qualifications anyone has, experience is always the Master.

Nope, I have no 'issues' with this event past or present, I don't operate like this;) Nor do I associate Liver/gall bladder with anger or emtions of any kind, sorry Doq, they are Organs of the body, there for a specific purpose, and sometimes they go wrong.

I WAS rather cross at being misdiagnosed though:D:D:D

I repeat what I was told, and have been by GP's my Consultant cousin at Bedford Hospital,.Ann Barnes ex Staff Nurse(from Cambridge, now works privately) three seperate Health practioners, not counting the Consultant who removed my Gall Bladder, and I could go on but I won't bore you -

1) If you have NO pain or symptoms of gall bladder stones or disease, it can be ASSUMED to be safe to take a cleanse. This is always a decision that should be taken under advice though, as, for instance in my own case, how did I know the actual size of the stones?

2) If you experience ANY discomfort or pain from the gall bladder or have been diagnosed as having stones or a diseased GB, do not attempt any cleanse, as it could be life threatening, until a scan can confirm the size of the stones in question.

Not everyone has 'sludge'.[&o]

Whilst 2 years taking A&P cannot possibly rise to your high qualifications, perhaps commonsense and a bit of research will take their place for most people.

Thanks again Red Bess.[sm=hug.gif]

Gilly

RE: Gall stone

Hi,

I can totally relate to the stories of misdiagnois, have had two experiences. My mother was being treated for a kidney infection for over a year, before she collapsed and died from acute pancreatitis. I, myself have been very sick for over a year and have been treated for all sorts of things when finally I collapsed at Christmas and was sent for tests, my gall bladder was very badly diseased and according to my consultant, I am one very lucky lady 🙂 My gall bladder was removed three months ago, and I've never looked back. I feel great and my life has totally changed. I wish your Mum well bluesparrow, as the pain is horrific.

Princess

RE: Gall stone

Princess, so very very sorry to read about your mother. I don't think words can express the pain you must have gone through and still feel now. xxx

Yes, you never look back,;) when a diseased gall bladder is removed, good luck to you, it doen't take long to recover does it:D The pain is something you can always remember even if you are not supposed to remember pain[&o]

Frankly since gall bladder disease is one of the easiest conditions to diagnose, I don't know why it was so hard for several GP's to misdiagnose me and bring me close to death. I was on the hit list, believe me[sm=FIFangel.gif]

I try not to go near doctors now;) but of course you have to sometimes[&o] although to be honest there are good BP machines out there, (ebay sells then even cheaper) and if you know what your S and D range should be, (loads of info on the net re: this) you can keep an eye of this yourself, as most things, listen to your body, for example, going to the toilet too much, thirsty, NOW is the time for a GP! You may have Diabetes, - you may not of course, but this is when you must check up.

Your body will 95% of the time indicate when you are ill.

Once again, so pleased you are feeling well again.

Love Gillyxxxxxxxxxxxxx

RE: Gall stone

Gilly

I do seem to have touched a raw nerve from this end of the computer - as I said, I am sorry you had an unpleasant experience, but that is nothing to do with me, and the issue of mis-diagnosis being raised by yourself and others indicates that held-feelings are present. Perfectly understandable, but best dealt with appropriately elsewhere, rather than dumping them on me!

I was replying to Bluesparrow who states her mother has already been diagnosed as having 'gallstone', and I am happy to give her the benefit of my experience to try to help relieve her symptoms - and as you say, experience is the important thing. I have been using complementary therapy approaches within my NHS practice for 12 years, and as stated in previous post, have safely recommended cleanses when appropriate without hint of problems.

This is the reason why it works well - anyone already getting biliary colic is busily passing small stones down the bile duct, and into the gut. Whilst on their way down, there can be severe colicky pain. If a stone gets stuck at some stage, then there will be an obstruction to the flow of bile, and jaundice will follow. When this occurs, hospital admission and appropriate measures usually follow rapidly - which may be an endoscopic removal of the stone from the bile duct, rather than removal of the gall bladder if it is thought to be healthy.

When using the cleanse, gallstones of smaller size are greatly softened, so they are able to be passed easily. People often see multiple soft green pellets in their stools. It is rare that a softened stone causes much pain on its way out. Surgery is prevented - and you have to remember that cholecystectomy does have a mortality rate.

Anyway, that is my personal experience - how much actual experience do the people you cite have - or are they talking theoretically?? My belief and experience is that cleanses are safe and effective when recommended for suitable cases.

Finally, if anyone is feeling their feelings about their personal experience with the medical profession, I would ask that they do not dump on me - I am not here to be anyones whipping boy! For those who may be interested in dealing with their bitterness from past experience, I have a good homeopath friend who runs a workshop called "Healing the Wounds" specifically to deal with these sorts of issues - PM me for details.

with love, light, laughter and learning - Doq xxx

RE: Gall stone

Doq,

A couple of issues here: no one's 'dumping on you', m'dear. Gilly as Chief Admin'er was reminding you that that kind of advice isn't so good on HP, and as the general advice goes, whatever you state on HP, it's better to say that it's your particular opinion but to get some qualified advice - I'm not saying that you're not qualified, but to get something from their own GP. I suspect not every GP on the planet agrees with every diagnosis/opinion of other GPs , and what you've most recently posted appears that you are saying, "I'm right, and this is fact." When, as I'm sure you'd agree, certain treatments aren't great for every person.

And again, your latest reply still has a sarcastic tone - I don't think we're all bile-spitting women with anger issues, we just object (or at least, I objected on someone else's behalf) to the sarkiness of your response: "I'm only a doctor with x years experience and qualifications, but of course I bow down to the person with 2 years' A&P......." etc. Gilly was just making you aware of the rules, and you appeared to belittle her.

More importantly, Princess, I'm very sorry for the loss of your mum. It was acute pancreatitis that my pal had, and I know how he suffered. Glad you're feeling better after your op now.

I know I'm not a mod or anything, but can we all be a little nicer to other HPers? Please? [sm=grouphug.gif]

RE: Gall stone

Red Bess - on the contrary, Gilly in her post launched straight into her own personal experience, and gave no guidance on what is the kind of advice which is good on HP. here is her post :

Doq, with all due respect, I have had my gall bladder removed after a final diagnosis of disease, and I had a history of mis-diagnosis. I had Jaundice and was rushed to hospital due to the fact a GP thought I had a case of Heliocopacter Pylori ( did not) ! and gave me three sets of medication to eliminate this, and then when I got no better I was told I had an Ulcer and received further medication which landed me in hospital.

I went Private, at great cost of course! The Consultant told me immediately what was wrong. As I needed surgery they could not do this until the Jaundice had gone, so I was put on Steroids. This got my Liver back to near normal.

I asked about a cleanse and was told how dangerous they could be. If for example you have large stones, they could be stuck in the tubes, the biliary ducts, leading to infection or inflammation of the gallbladder (cholecystitis) blockage of the biliary ducts leading to the duodenum (biliary obstruction) leading to the Liver and Pancreas and you could die.

You do not know how large your Gall Bladder stones are until you have a scan. If you undertake this self medication with large stones you could be endangering your life.

When I recovered I went to college, took A&P for two years and learnt a lot more about the human body.

Everything I learnt confirmed how dangerous it is to undertake any such procedure without full knowledge of what lies within!

If you read what I have posted, I emphasised what my personal experience has been, and do not simply claim I am right and you are wrong as you suggest. I am sorry if you find my tone sarcastic - not in any way intentional [:-] just trying to make a point.

I feel I have said all I need to say on this subject.

with love & light - Doq xxx

RE: Gall stone

Thanks again Red Bess, and yes, I was indeed following the guidelines for all general health questions, which are on the top of the page:

JUST FOR CLARIFICATION.

Love Gxxxxxxxxx

Perhaps I did not make this clear enough in my post, so I apologise for this oversight.;)

Er - I wasn't 'dumping' on you Doq, or anyone??? But apologies again if you saw it that way, maybe it was the way I wrote it?;)

I am sure many people may have experienced a healthy 'flush' from the gall bladder, and thank you Doq for pointing out that this could be achieved, however, I was stating only that from my experience and from the knowledge of many experts I have spoken to that this can be a potentially dangerous action to take, and that advice should be taken before doing so. Very difficult NOT to point out ones personal experiences when talking about something like this;) We all learn by the experiences other people have, and must use a degree of natural caution when advising any procedure which could turn out to be harmful in some cases.

Gillyxxx

Which size is considered safe for the flush

Dear gall pals,

I have had 2 gall bladder attacks very recently. I am opting out of the op, since I had no infection or no disease. I switched to a pure diet and reduced stress and have had no symptoms. BUT, I want the stone out.

I have all the things I need for the flush. But I am scared by the variety of opinion out there, as to it's safety.

DOQ: I have a question, and I really hope you can answer me in the next few days because my time is running out. I can only do the flush asap as I'm a single mum and need cover from my mum to do it - my stay with my parents will soon be over, so now is my chance.

So, DOQ, I'm asking you for your advice because of your training and 30 years experience. My stone is 7mm approx, said the doc. Do you think this size stone can be passed without any problems? I will be drinking apple juice for 5 days. also taking berberis extract, and using castor oil compresses, before taking the epsom salts and olive oil. What do you think? Am I taking a big risk with this size stone?

Also, have you ever seen any disasters during your time as a practitioner? ie: have you ever come across anyone that ended up needing emergency medical attention after doing a flush?

I hope to hear from you very soon.

Many thanks,

Loopy