Urgent advice - Discectomy or not?

Best of luck Ricky...its been a journey and a half :). One thing that shines through is your positivity, its kept me going through some dark times so many thanks for that.

I think Im a few weeks behind you in the return to work stakes but things have settled down nicely so May I reckon for light duties.

Take care of the back buddy

all the best

Hi Doog and Ricky

I wish you both all the best in your full recovery. It has been a difficult time for you both.

I'd like to suggest you both try the alkaline diet, mentioned earlier, which will so help your recovery and help to reduce inflammation.

Another suggestion that might help your progress considerably is - Emotional Freedom Technique, [url]see here[/url] for some stories where it has helped and there is a free basic download. I know you have both been on an emotional rollercoaster with your problem and I strongly feel that EFT could release the blocks to your speedy recovery. It is easy to learn and just one session with a practitioner - you can be guided over the phone once you know where to tap - who will guide you as to how to work on yourself could make all the difference. Very well worth a try.

All the best

Well done you are over the bad bit.
The nerves take time to recover a mm a day I hear.
You will need to gently stretch the back of the legs and sciatic nerve as it comes out of the spine and strengthen the deep postural muscles to keep the spine strong for the future.
Regards k
Physio and Pilates Teacher

rickyC / doog

Thanks so very much for sharing on here, it helps so much having food for thought when there are hard desisions to make. It would be amazing if once you are back to your real lives you pop back sometimes as I suspect long term sucssess disapears, but those at home again due to re-laps come back. It makes it feel a little scarry !!!

Again all the very best to you both for your returns.

P.s. I now have a date ; 1st May, I don't know whether to be excited that a reduction in pain is in sight, or scared !!!! (My hubby has had the opp but returned to work after 2 weeks, re-lapst and had 2 months in extream pain waiting for a second opp which worked, he is two years on and running 4 to 7 miles every other day. He does have occasional issues but not to the point of needing pain killers or stoping exersise or work.)

I feel like I am at the top of an absail, and don't know if the rope is strong enogh !!

Discectomy

I'm on the waiting list to have L4/L5 discectomy and decrompression in the next 6 to 8 weeks, I have read quite a few things on the internet and not all of them good, To say the least I'm in a bit of a quandry about having the op, but after suffering for nearly 30 years with back and leg pain, and having physio, accupuncture, and god knows what other treatment, I can't think of anything else, I have most of the time with back problems, with time off sick when the pain gets unbearable and difficulty walking, I have been off work this time for 4 months, and unsure how much longer I will be off work after the op, Any good comments appreciated.

John

Well things have improved greatly. Last Sunday was a 'as near as you get' pain free day in relation to the sciatica. Easily the best I have felt in 4 years.

Needless to say Monday wasnt so good, however today has been very good and I really think that the operation has worked. To be pain free is worth its weight in gold and mentally I feel like the cloud is lifting from over me.

I still have severe muscular type pain in my back when walking any distance, almost like a muscle spasm and sitting can be uncomfortable.

I saw my surgeon on Friday, he basically said I had been overdoing things,mainly walking too far. He also states that there will be other issues as the body learns to walk properly again after nearly 4 years of compensating for the injury.

His main advice was 'listen to your body'...

Thanks for all of your comments.

Lizzy, I wish you all the best for your operation, I am sure it will be worth it.

Thats fantastic news Doog. Delighted for you. I had the back spasms also. Sharp twisters that stop you in your tracks. Not so much now.

Working is interesting... yesterday i did 9hrs straight sitting down - no breaks. Friday i did 11hrs. Its the nature of the job with clients in the room all day with you. It looks like i'll have to make things work and be more active in stopping and taking breaks regardless of who's in the room.

Keep the walking up. i find 2 miles walk regularly is better than pushing for the 4 miles and overdoing it.

Keep truck'n!

I'm on the waiting list to have L4/L5 discectomy and decrompression in the next 6 to 8 weeks, I have read quite a few things on the internet and not all of them good, To say the least I'm in a bit of a quandry about having the op, but after suffering for nearly 30 years with back and leg pain, and having physio, accupuncture, and god knows what other treatment, I can't think of anything else, I have most of the time with back problems, with time off sick when the pain gets unbearable and difficulty walking, I have been off work this time for 4 months, and unsure how much longer I will be off work after the op, Any good comments appreciated.

John

Hiya John!

I am afraid your question is one of those 'how long is a peice of string' questions.

Assuming you haven't already done so John, you will need to ask your Surgeon loads of questions like; what is the name and nature of operation is he going to perform, how is it performed, what are the risks, how long do 'his' patient usually stay in hospital after the operation, what aftercare & rehab will you get and any thing else that concerns you. Surgeons don't usully like going in to that much detail, so you will have to push him/her and demand answers. Without them, you may well remain in a quandry right up to the operation day, I am sorry to have to say.

Knowledge is the key to enlightenment in life, so it is, in Spinal Surgery!

Best wishes and the best of luck for a good outcome!:)

SPINELF

The Dalai Lama on Life, Work, and Health

The Dalai Lama, when asked what surprised him most about humanity, answered:
"Man. Because he sacrifices his health in order to make money. Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health. And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."

confused.com

hi all

I have just returned from seeing my sergon re my L4/5 discectomy on first of may.
He asked me when I 'BROCK MY BACK' !!!!!!!!!!!!!

It seems higher up there is evidence that I have brocken it!!!!!! he showed me on the scan where the vervibray is a triangle, rather than rectangle other than telling me and asking when I did it he went back to discusing my discectomy.

I think I was a little shocked !!! Did not ask anything!

Anyone know if its a problem ????? :confused::(:confused:

hi all

I have just returned from seeing my sergon re my L4/5 discectomy on first of may.
He asked me when I 'BROCK MY BACK' !!!!!!!!!!!!!

It seems higher up there is evidence that I have brocken it!!!!!! he showed me on the scan where the vervibray is a triangle, rather than rectangle other than telling me and asking when I did it he went back to discusing my discectomy.

I think I was a little shocked !!! Did not ask anything!

Anyone know if its a problem ????? :confused::(:confused:

I, and I'm sure, other HP members too, are aslo shocked Lizzy!
But mainly at your Surgeon's uncaring and unenlightening atitude towards you and your care!!

You ask, is it problem? I say Yes!!
I would ask you to seriously and urgently consider a getting a 2nd opinion!!
Find a world class Spinal Trauma Surgeon and ask him/her, please!!

If the broken level is 'unresolved' and is 'unstable' it certainly will not not help matters!!

Let us know what you decide Lizzy.

Best wishes

SPINELF

hi all

I have just returned from seeing my sergon re my L4/5 discectomy on first of may.
He asked me when I 'BROCK MY BACK' !!!!!!!!!!!!!

It seems higher up there is evidence that I have brocken it!!!!!! he showed me on the scan where the vervibray is a triangle, rather than rectangle other than telling me and asking when I did it he went back to discusing my discectomy.

I think I was a little shocked !!! Did not ask anything!

Anyone know if its a problem ????? :confused::(:confused:

Oh dear, that is quite a shock!! I know cos it happened to me too. But thankfully it was Mr Martin Knight that told me and discussed the fracture and pointed out on the xrays where it was and how it affected my whole body stance and the way my vertebrae react on top of one another causing a lot of compression and degeneration as none of the vertebrae were straight anymore. . Luckily I was 15 when it happened and so I had a lot of growth left that helped mend the fracture. Mine was a compression fracture from when a horse landed on my shoulder and I was then bed rested for around 4 months, not because of the fracture, (it was never even xrayed till 30 years later lol by MK), but because I got dizzy and sick when I stood up after the accident lol!

Your surgeon is the best person to discuss this with, and soon, before the operation. Research him and ring his secretary and speak to her about how you feel.

I was offered a disectomy like you from the first surgeon I saw, I said no as he said it wouldn't stop the chronic back pain I have had all my life. Be sure that yours will. Disectomies usually only help leg pain.

Hopefully you have got over the shock, do you have any idea when it happened? Were you aware? Was it treated?

I think I know when I did it, about 6 years ago, but having had imobilising lower back spasms in the past the level of pain did not sugest to me a major prob, I did see my doc the next day, he sugested I went to a chiropractor and gave me pain relife, I was not working at the time so a chiropractor was not an option.

I am going ahead with my disectomy as the leg symtoms I have are very disabling and have has some momentery 'tingling' in sadle area (Only for a few mins after over doing it)

Its taken since november to get this opperation, I can not make more than a day or two at a time at work and am nearly out of sick pay!!!!

My plan is to get lower back delt with first then start asking about upper back!

What I don't know is what probs a disk bulge at this level can cause ??? I 'feel it' sometimes, but like neck ach after you have slept funny rather than disabling pain

Any one with any info ??? sorry if I'm sounding a little stressed !

yet another Update!!

3wks back in work. Straight into lates and commute. First 2 weeks were tough. This week started to level out. Got fitted for a custom chair & support for the car. I got measured and they cut it to my shape with added lumbar support. Genius idea!! Costly though.

Still have pain here and there mostly on the left side which is the opposite to the surgery. Hard to find the balance between work, rest and exercise.

New goggles, swim hat and even invested in a bicycle with a little side for the young fella!!

Keep truck'in!

How ya doing doog?

Well done Ricky - keep up the good work - carefully!!

Lizzy - so sorry to hear of your problems. Please can you read my post (no 69) on another thread. Do please get your diet sorted before anything gets any worse.

Love and Light

I am going ahead with my disectomy as the leg symtoms I have are very disabling and have has some momentery 'tingling' in sadle area (Only for a few mins after over doing it)
What I don't know is what probs a disk bulge at this level can cause ??? I 'feel it' sometimes, but like neck ach after you have slept funny rather than disabling pain

Any one with any info ??? sorry if I'm sounding a little stressed !

You need not appologise to us lizzyH, we fully understand why you are stressed!!

The L4/5 level disc is regarded as a sciatic level and could well cause severe groin, bottock, thigh, shin and foot pains and their related muscle spasms. If you experience 'none' of these symptoms, then you need to urgently ask the Surgeon more questions!

Here's to wishing you the very best for your discectomy and the fondest hope for your full recovery Lizzy!!

We will all still be here for you, when come home!

Best wishes

SPINELF

Sorry, I think I have been a little unclear, I have all the L4/5 symptoms, which is why I am having opp next week, it is the uper back disk bulge and previous broken vertibra that I know nothing of ?????????? That is where the 'mild' symtoms I discribed are.

Thank you to all who have responded

Thanks for clarifying Lizzy!

I hope you find answers for your 'broken level' issues after your surgery!

once again, may we all wish you, the very best for a pain free future!

SPINELF

After opp

I'm home from my disectomy on tues, I am Ok, tired and sore but sucsessful I think

Nice to have you back Lizzie, thanks so much for popping in, I always wonder how people get on, how they are etc, hopefully the soreness will improve, now don't overdo things, be gentle on yourself and keep us all updated please

Hi

Four days since my opp

I have been on to let pep know how I am doing but by the time I have read some posts I have fallen asleep again ! lol

Well how did it go ???

I came around to my back spazimzing !!!:eek: (sorry about spelling) I was at that moment worried to say the least. It took me ten mins to get them to lower the head end of the bed, they were just giving my more drugs, I ended up shouting before they did as I asked, I was then ok.

At some point I may have a little more of a winge about the way hospitals look after you.

Each day I seem to improve, its hard as for half hour I feel like a normal person, then its nap time again ! Back and legs feel fine when stood up, but I start feeling very dizzy and tird after half hour. I also seem to get a numb big toe after a bit !

Things are not as good when I try to relax, my back spazims when I first lay down and sometimes when I try to turn over.

The spazims worrie me BUT each day I am improving
See you all soon liz

yet another Update!!

3wks back in work. Straight into lates and commute. First 2 weeks were tough. This week started to level out. Got fitted for a custom chair & support for the car. I got measured and they cut it to my shape with added lumbar support. Genius idea!! Costly though.

Still have pain here and there mostly on the left side which is the opposite to the surgery. Hard to find the balance between work, rest and exercise.

New goggles, swim hat and even invested in a bicycle with a little side for the young fella!!

Keep truck'in!

How ya doing doog?

Hi Ricky

Slow but sure

Hope you are well

Ricky/Dooge

Hope things are still improving for you both. Ricky, when I read your post with '9 hours with no break' I had a strong need to shout at you, your follow on post made me smile as it said everything I was thinking. It is so easy to give advice and yet so hard to take it!

I am day 8 post op and just re-read the posts to reasure my self that ups and downs are normal. I am a little confused.com. The advice re-recovery is a little confusing, I was told to do a three way rotation; 20-30 mins standing, bed AND sitting. The physio said the sitting was needed to strech (I can't remember what needed streching). As the sitting was suppost to be on a firm chair with lumber support, which I don't have I have not done this, also that this seems to be the opposit to advice others have been given.

Also, I was told to walk a mile a day, but, should it be 1 mile for the first two weeks then build up, or should I be trying to make it further now I am improving

liz

Hi Lizzy, Great that your improving and aware of the 2 steps forward one step back scenario at times.

The one thing i'll say is each person will say there own thing.. doctor, nurse surgeon etc. Walk this per day etc. Any walking is good, Do what you can manage and don't over do it. Trust your body before what your ''Supposed'' to do each day. I started walking around the house, then up the lane then 500 paces then 1/2mile 2 miles 3miles and finally 4 miles. I now find 3 miles is just right for me. Exercise and not over doing it. Finding the balance comes with time. But go easy.

Today I had the final fitting for a custom work chair and car seat also. I could have sat on the chair in the shop all day long is was so comfy and supportive.

As for the seated 8-9hr days working - thats life, thats how i pay my way and support my family. All i can do is sit right on a decent chair and keep going..

This is great [url]Naked Alarm Clock - Free Web-based Alarm Clock for Everyone[/url]
Its an online alarm clock that can be set to go off every 15mins ( Which means GET UP AND WALK AROUND) Fantastic!!

Goodluck with your recovery - it gets easier

Its been a bad week. I really dont know why. I guess its been bad enough to post again.

My major issue is lower back pain to the left of the surgery. This was a new pain I felt when I woke up from surgery and has bothered me ever since. When I say pain, I mean 8/10 pain.I am back on some serious meds.

My GP made this rather interesting observation that after your suffer a prolapsed disc everyone advises you to work on your core strength, only for the surgeon to then drive straight through that core to fix the disc...all that work undone...catch 22.

The sciatica has almost gone...and I guess thats what the operation is all about. However backs arent that simple. My pain was 50/50 back sciatica at the point of surgery or even 60/40 - the back pain hasnt gone at all, indeed its getting worse. (Major compensation over 4 years I have been told - now trying to sort itself out)

My observations are as such approaching 3 months post op:

1.This operation will help your sciatica but not your back pain.

2.Take everything slowly.

3 .You really dont need to walk miles on end post op...just gentle walks.

4. Listen to your body.

5. Prepare for a nice life-long scar luckily you cant see it

Ricky glad you are getting a nice chair - no chance of that in my job - I think my cards are marked.

Sorry to hear that Doog. Its a tricky road. I'm putting a happy face on it at the minute - it is very tough going and the realization that its a life long issue makes you look at things differently. Its a mental challenge to accept that. Keep positive which is very hard to do with the pain you seem to be enduring constantly. Its the head that bears the brunt of it really..

My surgeon made it very clear to me that he could only eliminate the sciatia and do nothing at all for the back pain.

As for the chair. I'm paying for that myself. Its going to hurt for the next 3 months financially but i've no choice in the matter.

Cards marked... Never say never.

Huya Doog, Ricky!

I am so sorry to see that you guys are still suffering!

I know it's still early days yet, but keep records of your improvements, and any degenerations, and make sure your Surgeons know about them!

Your Surgeon Ricky, saying he can fix one problem, but not the other one, is (in my humble opinion) not acceptable!! If he can't fix you, he/she sould refer you to a 'Top Surgeon' who can!! Don't let him/her fob you off, as i'm sure you want bigger improvements!

Doog, the point made by your GP, shows that the destruction of balance, strength and power in the core muscles, particularly the 'fascias' during surgery, is no secret, but its relevance for patient's long term outcome, is still not being explained prior to surgery!

It all makes my blood boil!!

Best wishes and kind thoughts to you both

SPINELF

16 days post op

Each day is an improvement. I have to hold on to that.

Frustration of clear advice from medical people is so very frustrating! My Sergon told me to return to work 2 weeks after opp. GP seems to have less idea than my kids about right / wrong thing to do and will write anything I want on fit note!

Physio yesterday gave me very careful exersises and told to lisen to body. But when I asked about swimming got a not for 6 to 12 weeks ! anyone know why that would be? GP could see no reason when I asked him !

I could not see myself being ready to return after two weeks! That would have been 2 days ago !!! I still need regular lye down time each day ! I have next week booked off as a weeks hol, then I will be back to it!! I am scared !

wow return to work after 2 weeks!! That's insane! I was 8wks and even then it was a struggle. I'm 5 weeks back and its only this week i'm feeling normal again.

The no swimming is based on the scar and swimming pools are breeding grounds for infection. I was told the same.

For what its worth, the first 6wks are vital in recovery to take it easy and not over do it. If work is going to be an issue then take the time now.

Glad you seeing improvement each day.

Hiya Lizzy!

RickyC is right about the infection issue, this is particularly the case after standard 'open back' spine surgery, micro-procedures and fusions.

The other point to bear in mind is that as a procedure, standard spine operations create a lot of 'collateral damage' which has to heal 'slowly' to fully recover. When you do eventually go back to the pool, don't swim at first! Try gentle walking and stretching exercises first! You can find information about these techniques on 'hydro-therapy' web sites! Perhaps the resident HP Therapists can guide you further on this program.

Best wishes FOR A LOVELY HOLIDAY!!:)

SPINELF