I figure, that before, this forum gets bogged down with desparate folk who have be told they need surgery for their low back/disk problem, I'd just swoop in & offer my humble opinion.
Before I drag my soap box out, I feel it only fair to point out that I am an osteopath, amongst other things and that my view, like anyone one's, is open to bias. Also, I would
like to say that I work both privately and for the NHS.
1 - It is relatively rare that a disk injury (even a full prolapse) requires surgery.
2 - Over 90% of us will have a disk injury before we expire, which means you are actually abnormal if you don't get one. It's just that in some people they cause a lot more problems/pain than in others.
3 - A disk prolapse can be a serious condition & aught to be checked out by an appropriate primary health care practioner. Signs of when it is an emergency - see below.
4 - Surgery may actually make matters worse in the short & long term & there's is a distinct lack of research on this matter. I welcome any if you can find any, also I am happy for you if you've undergone surgery for this problem & it has resolved the matter.
5 - You may find that a 'private' consultant is more keen to operate than an NHS one. It's a complex issue, including insurance, fees, cost & necessesity, but do ask yourself why.
Hospital is indicated if any of the following are present:-
Large areas of numbness in the leg/s and especially around the anus and genitalia.
Incontinence of bladder/bowel.
Inability to urinate/defecate - that is not solely due to pain of ‘forcing’ or constipation, such as, from taking pain-killers/anti-inflammatories.
Loss of power in the leg/s - that is not solely due to pain. This may present as 'foot drop' where you are having to drag your foot because you're unable to flex the ankle.
Address for article on low back problems in general -
Will get back to you when I've thrown together more info on the nature of disk & other low back problems, but you'll find more info on this issue on my vital-osteopathy web site.
Before I go - I will say that typically - disk prolapses & herniations give more pain in the leg than in than in the lumbar spine itself. Disks, themselves, have little or no pain sensory nerves. Also, the degree of pain experienced bears little or no relation to the seriousness of the condition. The truth is that the more minor low back problems seem to cause a great deal more pain locally.
Other than in the exceptional cases noted above - I would suggest you get to see your local osteopath, but then, as I say I am not without bias. Like anything some are better than others, but at least you can rest assured that since regulation came in by the General Osteopathic Council - they will, at the very least, be safe. Osteopaths are now recognised as Primary Care Practitioners, which puts them on a par with GP's - the difference being is that osteopaths actively treat people with these sort of problems every day and don't just treat the symptoms.
Do bear in mind that if it is a severe disk injury, even with treatment it may take a few months to settle down. Although pain killers/anti-inflammatories are not without their side effects, they may mean that you can get some sleep. Natural alternatives - we'll do another day.
Whatever else you do (if you don't have any of the serious symptoms noted above) - Keep moving as best you can. Movement will help clear the inflammation, which is the major case of pain.
It took a long time for them to get there, but western medicine has finally recognised that bed rest is the last thing you do. Unfortunately some GP's still haven't caught up on that one.
Possible prolapsed disc, and advice needed
Hello All,
I am new to using threads but feel strongly that there is no one out there who understands my pain!
I am 21 year old female who is active and healthy. I have had no recent injuries and the only possible explanation for my pain is a lively gig I went to before Christmas.
My back pain has been on-going and daily for 5 months now. Like I said no significant injury. At first the pain was dull ache in my lower back. It was almost as if I felt the need to flex my back constantly to relief the pain (and even this didnt help) It was daily dull ache pain and almost similar to period pain where nothing is comfortable. I found sitting and slow movements the worst, but was still able to excercise and this almost helped.
I went to the doctor within the first couple of months who refered me to physio. Physio made matters worse, she undertook an ultra sound on my back which caused great discomfort for the next couple of days. The pain was all the way to my right ankle and felt like tooth ache in my leg!
I went back to the doctors who prescribed me with dyhydrocodeince and diazepam which I have now been on for about 3 months. I have recently been refered for an MRI scan aswell.
The doctor thinks I may have a prolapsed disk.
I get severe sciatic pain down my legs, this occurs mostly when I am sitting or doing slow movements such as walking round a supermarket or looking round shops, it also occurs when I am standing. My back pain is constent but almost seems in-significant in comparison to sciatica, I almost feel as if im getting used to back pain, and cant work out whether its getting better or im just getting used to it.
I can however excercise, not intensley. But leisurely walks round parks for 45 minutes and even bike rides help and therefore it is not disabling me. It is not preventing me from sleeping although I often wake up in pain, often on my hip.
Lots of people have given me massages and commented on the tightness of two particular areas of my back but who knows.
Doctor has recently suggested that it may be prolapsed disc and i almost feel relief to know that i possibly have a diagnosis. I have luckily been advised to go for an MRI scan and hope someone will tell me what is wrong, I am also scared they wont be able to find anything and this is something I will have to live with.
It gets me very down, but Im aware things could be worse. I almost feel as if I want them to say, "we will operate and then everything will be back to normal" even though i know operating should be a last resort.
I am also doing pilates which is nice at the time but i havent shown any improvements and am even being held back in progressing in the classes, just sticking to stretching and breathing techniques as i dont have the strength for the possitions.
If you have stuck with me until this point you deserve a medal, my rambling has gone on for to long. Advice/similar stories would be grateful. I feel a little alone in my pain.
Thank You so much if you have read up until this point,
Lorna x
Succsess Story Discectomy
Hi all,
Just wanted to add my story to the form ,
Last year (AUG 2011) i was sitting at my desk and went to stand up and couldn’t straighten up .
Weeks passed and i didn’t get any better so i went to A and E and they told me that i most likely had sciatica and it should get better , they sent me home and told me to take some pain medication , they also prescribed me diclifenac . well as the months passed my pain started to get worse i started to get pin shooting down my leg, to the point that i could no longer lie flat on my back or straighten out my right leg , my leg was starting to go numb as well as my 1st 3 toes. I was walking with a limp , i went to the doctor and they sent me for an MRI scan , It was then confirmed that i had a prolapsed **** L5 S1 , I was referred to a specialist who kept moving my appointment out by months , i was that sore that i just couldn’t take the pain any longer , thankfully i had private health insurance through my work so i paid the excess and was then referred to a specialist in Edinburgh . The doctor was in total aw of how i had managed to cope with the pain so long and did not offer me any alternative but to have surgery. 3 weeks later 30 Apr 2012 I was booked into spire Murryfeild Edinburgh.
I woke up after the op and really felt like poo!! I was hoping that when i woke up that the pain in my leg would be gone but it was still there (Not a happy chappy ! lol) any way i spent 4 days in hosp then i was sent home with lots of pain meds to take regularly , I did not realise that i would not be able to stand for any length of time , even to make a cup of tea was too long i would have to hobble back to my bed to ease the pain . Please If you are reading this rest rest rest !! this is the best advice you can get yes it boring and it will drive you nuts but just do it its the best chance for a speedy recovery you will have , i live alone and my mum had to pop in and make me dinner etc... over the period of about 4 weeks post surgery i was still in pain still had leg pain and i started to get depressed every time i got a visitor i would end up in tears as i though the surgery had not worked.
Another 2 weeks passed and i was starting physio I was able to do some light swimming and i was back at work , i was starting to feel a lot better about myself my leg pain was easing and my back pain , all thanks to the great work that the physio done for me , however the exercises that they give you must be done in the house too or you will not benefit from them at all.
Any way that 5 months passed i attend the gym regularly I have started running again, 2 weeks ago i climbed a munrow!!!
Before i had my op i was searching the internet on what was going to happen and how long my recovery would take and all i could find was people telling stories how there ops didn’t work and how depressed they were !!
Well my sorry is one of success i have come so far in such a short time and just wanted to say that listening to the doctors and phyio and you will be fine .Don’t try and do too much as this will hinder your recovery and send you back to square 1!.
I have MRI pic and post op scar pics if any one wants to have a look im happy to share.
Thanks for reading
Lesley
Great success story! Such a joy to hear from someone like me who is 2weeks post op for microdiscectomy and still having leg pain though massively reduced, I just hope it eventually goes! Thank you for posting a positive success story - it really is a help! 🙂
Fantastic story Lesley - thank you for sharing! Oh and Welcome to Healthypages :wave:.
Back ops seem to be a bit of a hit and miss affair, and it is always good to hear about positive results. It is so easy to focus on the negative ;). But here you are back on your feet and away again. Well done for following advice and not trying to do too much too soon.
Wishing you all the best and hope you stay around and continue contributing to the forums on HP.
Hi, I have a left leaning list. I have a central prolapsed disc at l4/l5 level. Unfortunately for me, I was have a left leaning antalgic list. I mean I lean left. My nerves are not compressed according to my scan. The pain in my hips is probably not due to sciatica because the nerve is not trapped. I think the pain in my hip is due to the stretching of the muscles due to the list I feel a pull there. Did anybody else have a list and did it resolve after surgery. Since my gait is wonky, I cannot walk straight and I think this causes my pain. The nerves are not trapped. My Orthopaedist said that due to the size of the prolapse I need to have surgery. Would surgery resolve the list? Does anyone know?
Back Support and Back Braces Worked for Me
I am speaking through experience when I say that pain (be it chronic or acute) can be such a demotivating feeling. I hurt my back three years ago and found out that I had herniated a disc in my lower spine. The pain I experience was a very frustrating one. However, I tried to keep my head up all the time and find ways to alleviate the pain and treat my back. I wore back braces for extra back support and tried acupuncture, all of which helped in the smooth recovery of my back. I do believe that pain can be treated medically, as well as holistically. Most importantly, have a positive attitude when in pain, or at least try to.
1) Did anybody else have a list and did it resolve after surgery?
2) Would surgery resolve the list? Does anyone know?
Hiya Hopehasgone!
I'm sorry, but I didn't spot this post when I came back!!
Because of my L4/5 & L5/S1 disc herniations, foraminal osteophytes and spinious process osteophytes, I too suffered with a leg list! Mine was on the right side and the effects of my symptoms actually shortened my leg by about quarter of an inch!
This shortening was caused by the effects of cramping and spasming of my muscles in the back of my leg and my right buttocks. Over the years, I made that worse myself, by trying to protect the leg from more pain by adopting a very leaning gate!
A large amount of this limping issue has been eradicated by my last TELFD.
It early days yet, and I'm not counting my chickens, but things are better!
The issue of the MRI scans not showing any nerve contact and Spine Surgeons supporting that report, is a 'hot button' issue for me Hopehasgone! 6 Consultant Surgeons insisted that there was no contact between any of my L4/5 & L5/S1 levels and refused me treatment!
It took me 5 years, £15,000 and a visit to the 'London Upright MRI clinic' to prove that they were all wrong and there was contact. It only showed up when I underwent an MRI scan whilst standing in the the most painful position I could tolerate, in the clinics dynamic MRI scanner for 45 minutes.
I was always in pain when I stood upright and extended, not when was sat or laying on my back! None of the Medics understood the effects of gravity and loading on a my spinal discs and how they become compressed under loading when standing!
This is school grade physics, They are supposed to know this stuff!!! AAAAAAAGH!!!!!
Speak soon Hopehasgone!
Best wishes
SPINELF
hello spinelf
hi spinelf, are you still on this forum?, if so i need to ask you a spinal question as you seem to have a lot of great knowledge about thas subject.
kind regards,daveyam.
daveyam, I just posted in response to you on the 'bulging disc' thread. I can see what you need and I mentioned it there, but the post has not yet gone up, probably because I am a newbie on here.
You need to know 'how your spine works' and there is a book out there that is an absolute godsend (it was to me). It's written by Sarah Key a physio who is endorsed by Prince Charles. I survived that dreadful agony of so-called 'slipped' discs, and even got to pre-med when the surgeon didn't operate and instead kept the 'door open' as I had made such good progress. Physio helped tremendously, but it's a long haul. The book was my life saver. I'm reading it again at this minute because I lapsed in the last few years (of being 'normal' again and resorting to not doing my exercises and the old 'do I need to?'. Yes, I did 'need to', and I just got a warning with that low grade ache and awful pain wrenching muscle spasm.
But... I'll beat it. I did it before, and I'll do it again!
Good luck, beat that despair. I know what it's like as do so many others. It's very common.
But like a lot of things medical, one of the questions I always put to a doctor if I have a problem is 'what causes this?' Invariably, the answer I get is 'we don't really know'.
Says it all!
My appologise Daveyam!
hi spinelf, are you still on this forum?, if so i need to ask you a spinal question as you seem to have a lot of great knowledge about thas subject.
kind regards,daveyam.
Sorry for the delay in responding Daveyam, I had a bit of a post op flare up which took me down for a few months!
Yes, I am still here!
If you would prefer to 'PM' me, rather than talk on forum, please feel free.
Speak to you soon
Best wishes
SPINELF
So as to avoid lower back problems, I have started exercising from my last birthday. My exercise routine consist of 15 sit-ups, 20 minutes of power yoga, 10 Pilates.
Hi, I have a left leaning list. I have a central prolapsed disc at l4/l5 level. Unfortunately for me, I was have a left leaning antalgic list. I mean I lean left. My nerves are not compressed according to my scan. The pain in my hips is probably not due to sciatica because the nerve is not trapped. I think the pain in my hip is due to the stretching of the muscles due to the list I feel a pull there. Did anybody else have a list and did it resolve after surgery. Since my gait is wonky, I cannot walk straight and I think this causes my pain. The nerves are not trapped. My Orthopaedist said that due to the size of the prolapse I need to have surgery. Would surgery resolve the list? Does anyone know?
Have you tried Cymatics? I had back pain for many years, every time I lifted something heavy. Chiropractors and Osteoopathy never lasted and I had great success with Cymatics which relieves the muscle spasm.
Disc herniation (prolapsed intervertebral disc).
Degenerative disc disease.
Infection (discitis).
Spinal disc problems can lead to symptoms of back pain and/or sciatica. There are many other causes of back pain and/or sciatica but they do not primarily originate from the intervertebral discs. This article focuses on thoracic, lumbar and sacral disc problems. Cervical disc problems are discussed in the separate article Cervical Disc Protrusion and Lesions.
Back pain with/without sciatica is extremely common. Most may be classified as 'simple' back pain where serious underlying pathology is unlikely. However, the clinician must always be aware of 'red flag' warning signs which may merit investigations or even emergency admission.
1 Encouragement to keep active: swimming is a good exercise.
2 Heat and massage may relieve muscle spasm.
3 Avoidance of activities that may aggravate pain: eg lifting, prolonged sitting.
4 Physiotherapy
5 Regular exercise.
6 Weight loss if overweight.
7 Safe lifting techniques.
for more
http://healthfitness4all.blogspot.in/
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[URL='http://healthfitness4all.blogspot.in/'> http://healthfitness4all.blogspot.in/
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/a>[/URL][/URL][/URL]
Disc herniation (prolapsed intervertebral disc).
Degenerative disc disease.
Infection (discitis).
Spinal disc problems can lead to symptoms of back pain and/or sciatica. There are many other causes of back pain and/or sciatica but they do not primarily originate from the intervertebral discs. This article focuses on thoracic, lumbar and sacral disc problems. Cervical disc problems are discussed in the separate article Cervical Disc Protrusion and Lesions.
Back pain with/without sciatica is extremely common. Most may be classified as 'simple' back pain where serious underlying pathology is unlikely. However, the clinician must always be aware of 'red flag' warning signs which may merit investigations or even emergency admission.
1 Encouragement to keep active: swimming is a good exercise.
2 Heat and massage may relieve muscle spasm.
3 Avoidance of activities that may aggravate pain: eg lifting, prolonged sitting.
4 Physiotherapy
1 Regular exercise.
2 Weight loss if overweight.
3 Safe lifting techniques.
4 Correct sitting position and posture.
Disc herniation (prolapsed intervertebral disc).
Degenerative disc disease.
Infection (discitis).
Spinal disc problems can lead to symptoms of back pain and/or sciatica. There are many other causes of back pain and/or sciatica but they do not primarily originate from the intervertebral discs. This article focuses on thoracic, lumbar and sacral disc problems. Cervical disc problems are discussed in the separate article Cervical Disc Protrusion and Lesions.
Back pain with/without sciatica is extremely common. Most may be classified as 'simple' back pain where serious underlying pathology is unlikely. However, the clinician must always be aware of 'red flag' warning signs which may merit investigations or even emergency admission.
1 Encouragement to keep active: swimming is a good exercise.
2 Heat and massage may relieve muscle spasm.
3 Avoidance of activities that may aggravate pain: eg lifting, prolonged sitting.
4 Physiotherapy
1 Regular exercise.
2 Weight loss if overweight.
3 Safe lifting techniques.
4 Correct sitting position and posture.
for more
Disc herniation (prolapsed intervertebral disc).
Degenerative disc disease.
Infection (discitis).
Spinal disc problems can lead to symptoms of back pain and/or sciatica. There are many other causes of back pain and/or sciatica but they do not primarily originate from the intervertebral discs. This article focuses on thoracic, lumbar and sacral disc problems. Cervical disc problems are discussed in the separate article Cervical Disc Protrusion and Lesions.
Back pain with/without sciatica is extremely common. Most may be classified as 'simple' back pain where serious underlying pathology is unlikely. However, the clinician must always be aware of 'red flag' warning signs which may merit investigations or even emergency admission.
1 Encouragement to keep active: swimming is a good exercise.
2 Heat and massage may relieve muscle spasm.
3 Avoidance of activities that may aggravate pain: eg lifting, prolonged sitting.
4 Physiotherapy
1 Regular exercise.
2 Weight loss if overweight.
3 Safe lifting techniques.
4 Correct sitting position and posture.
for more
Cymatics therapy doesn't work for everyone. In my experience, the common causes of musculoskeletal back problems (including a prolapsed disks) can be kept at bay with gradual exercise as Stacy said. Following an exercise routine does seem to help. Whilst I wouldn't advise traditional medication,[url] liquid medicine[/url] as an alternative can ease the pain for many patients.
RE: Low Back Problems & Prolapsed Disks.
such a brilliant thread. so many people undergo back surgery because it is the only option given by most doctors. the truth is yoga, and other alternatives can assist greatly. why is it the NHS dont employ us yoga therapist. so many would benefit and i am fed up with sending letters to them to ask if i can work with them. one day they will see the light and stop endless suffering.
ps how do you get the pretty pictures under your name!
tammyx[&o]
Where I live, which used to be Sheltered Housing, but is so no longer since funding was cut for a Warden, we are fortunate in that the daughter of a lady who lives here, is a Professional Yoga Teacher. She comes and takes a Yoga class here once a week.
All of us are over 60, 70,80,90.
It's been running now for over 2 years and we feel great benefit from it. Especially those with back problems. The oldest attendee, whose been attending since Class 1 is 98 years young!
Age is only a word after all!!
“For age is opportunity no less
Than youth itself, though in another dress,
And as the evening twilight fades away
The sky is filled with stars, invisible by day.”
Extract from Morituri Salutamis by Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
Hi guys,
I have suffered with my back for many years, i came across this belt which is meant to be really very helpful with back issues......here is the link,
I hope it helps y'all, Ali x
Hi guys,
I have suffered with my back for many years, i came across this belt which is meant to be really very helpful with back issues......here is the link,
I hope it helps y'all, Ali x
Hello Ali x, you could also try a belt that has magnets front and back. I have one and it helps me. I have also built up my core muscles by swimming. I know for some that is too painful but it helps to support the spine and hold it in line. You could also try Acupuncture as this also helps but make sure your Practitioner has at least three years training.
Kim
1) Did anybody else have a list and did it resolve after surgery?
2) Would surgery resolve the list? Does anyone know?
Hiya Hopehasgone!
I'm sorry, but I didn't spot this post when I came back!!
Because of my L4/5 & L5/S1 disc herniations, foraminal osteophytes and spinious process osteophytes, I too suffered with a leg list! Mine was on the right side and the effects of my symptoms actually shortened my leg by about quarter of an inch!
This shortening was caused by the effects of cramping and spasming of my muscles in the back of my leg and my right buttocks. Over the years, I made that worse myself, by trying to protect the leg from more pain by adopting a very leaning gate!
A large amount of this limping issue has been eradicated by my last TELFD.
It early days yet, and I'm not counting my chickens, but things are better!The issue of the MRI scans not showing any nerve contact and Spine Surgeons supporting that report, is a 'hot button' issue for me Hopehasgone! 6 Consultant Surgeons insisted that there was no contact between any of my L4/5 & L5/S1 levels and refused me treatment!
It took me 5 years, £15,000 and a visit to the 'London Upright MRI clinic' to prove that they were all wrong and there was contact. It only showed up when I underwent an MRI scan whilst standing in the the most painful position I could tolerate, in the clinics dynamic MRI scanner for 45 minutes.
I was always in pain when I stood upright and extended, not when was sat or laying on my back! None of the Medics understood the effects of gravity and loading on a my spinal discs and how they become compressed under loading when standing!
This is school grade physics, They are supposed to know this stuff!!! AAAAAAAGH!!!!!
Speak soon Hopehasgone!
Best wishes
SPINELF
Well done,
I once went with a Patient (I am an Acupuncturist) to a 'Specialist' (I went with her because she was elderly and was very nervous) Her head was pulling to one side. He said she had Scoliosis. I disagreed and finally we got a second opinion and that person said it is Torticolis. Her neck was being pulled to one side due to scar tissue after her breast cancer operation. The first 'specialist had not fully read her notes! Sometimes you need 'school grade Physics'!
Kim
The first 'specialist had not fully read her notes! Sometimes you need 'school grade Physics'!
Sometimes the professionals just need a good kick up the B#m! They don't view patients holistically or wholly, one for each part or condition can get ridiculous.
Hi, my blog have something about low back, you can check it.
The very first post on this forum (Anahata) was pretty good advice. An Australian study recently found no correlation between MRI/X-ray findings of disk or spinal degeneration and pain in a ramdom sample of the population.
I practice Craniosacral Therapy, and find :
[LIST=1]
8 fused? Did she have an accident? Which were the 8?
8 fused? Did she have an accident? Which were the 8?
Hi Cassie - I appreciate your interest. However, despite the fact that this lady is no longer alive (so I felt it was OK to share a small amount of detail), patient details are confidential.
I wasn't after patient details, lol, I was asking because I have never come across anyone that has had 8 vertebrae fused! I would have thought that as you appeared to be discussing clinical ways forward you might say which they were was it neck and lumbar or was it a tranche? I have always been told it is impossible.
I've only ever just had sports massage for my sore back but people have told me chiropractors can often do more harm than good. Not sure what to believe