Just had Discectomy on Monday

Hi Amy,

This is the same as I was told when I was offered an op in the US, it sounds marvellous, it makes the UK seem barbaric butchers doesn't it?

So glad you are doing well and thanks for posting this 🙂

Hi Amy and Cascara

This is pretty much the leaflet I was given before my op. Your op sounds text book to mine too. Im glad you are feeling so great following your op Amy. I hope your recovery goes well but please done rush things, you will prob take up to a year to feel 100% normal but it will happen!

Take care
Fitbird
xx

Yes, Cassie, it sure does. Barbaric is quite the right word. I read many more threads last night and it made me so upset. It is shocking, really.

Hi fitbird - I am certainly not going to rush things. Today is Day 4 after op and I am still feeling great. I was able to shower last night and take off the wound dressing. The wound is less than 3 inches long and it appears that I have 3-4 staples. I am shocked to hear that some people have 14-15 staples and have had the same surgery as I. I have virtually no pain from the incision and it is already itching, so it is well on its way to healing. I have been walking and climbing stairs since the first day and by looking at me, you would never know that I had this op if I hadn't told you. 🙂

Hi Amy and Cascara

This is pretty much the leaflet I was given before my op. Your op sounds text book to mine too. Im glad you are feeling so great following your op Amy. I hope your recovery goes well but please done rush things, you will prob take up to a year to feel 100% normal but it will happen!

Take care
Fitbird
xx

Hi,

I wish you would tell us more about your operation , who did it and where, was it done privately or nhs, as so far the rest of us have drawn a blank and every time we ask for more details you seem to miss the post. It would be fantastic to know that somewhere in the UK this operation was being offered rather than like some of us we have to save up for years to go to the US, so please tell us.

Welcome Amybt!

Hi everyone,
I am new to this site and just found it today while educating myself about post op discectomy questions. I must say, I am very concerned with most of you that post on here. I say that with respect and with no intention of hurting anyone's feelings. I am absolutely shocked and appalled by the care and treatment that you all have received before, during and after your discectomy procedures.

That being said, I am aware that this is a UK site, and I live here in the United States. I am not familiar with your health care system or the logistics for having these type of procedures/surgery. I can however tell you my story and then ask that you thoroughly educate yourselves and make the best possible decisions. (End quote)

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Hiya Amybt, and welcome.

The big difference between our 'spinal health care systems' is that the USA has seen a '200 fold increse' in Minimally Invasive Spinal Surgery Clinics (similar to bonati, laser spine, micro spine and so on) having been set up and operated in the USA over the last 6 years!

The minimally destructive and endoscopic surgical procedures carried out at these (MISS) clinics, allow for 'minimal to no' destruction of tendons, nerves, muscles tissue and bone as the Surgeon approaches the target area. This is in direct contrast to traditional what we call 'open back' spine surgery. In addition, these 'open procedures' usually incise an opening of beteen 3 - 6 inches to start, (MISS) requires less than 'one half an inch', so the advantages are obvious from the start.

Less damage, less complications!!

Also, the increasing pressure from these 'day surgery (MISS) clinics' on standard US spine surgeons, is considerable, because outcomes are so much better. The 'better' of the standard procedure spine surgeons therefore have to then 'up their game' in order to compete within US 'open market' health care systems.

These Surgeons can create 'good clinical outcomes' for thier patients, but it does require the Surgeon to respond positively to this pressure, I would suggest that these Surgeons are in the minority, in USA as well as the UK!

There 'are also' good standard spine surgeons in the UK who are also creating these positive clinical outcomes for thier patients using these outdated methods, as you will see detailed from members of the HP forum, but I would still suggest that these induviduals are few and far between and getting information on them and their apparently succesfull procedures,
is almost totally imposible!

This is because, I believe,
1) That there is less compitition in the UK.
2) That the 'old boys network' discourages British Spine Surgeons from moving into
the (MISS) area of superior surgery, because this would require extensive retraining.
3) Existing 'standard procedure' Spine Surgeons would lose work.
4) The closed NHS system discouges expperimental dynamism.

Best wishes

SPINELF

My experience with a discectomy

Hello Amy,
My discectomy took place in the US too. Like you I walked out just a few hours after my surgery and I felt a lot better. That was 16 months ago. Now the pain is back but it is a different pain. It is more wide spread and worse. I had the same post op instructions you posted and I did all the exercises that the Dr. asked me to do. I hope you have better success than I had. Just be careful. If you are having numbness and pain on the side of your left leg after your surgery demand another MRI just to see if more of that disk has moved onto that nerve again. Good luck.
Darrin

Think I would be tempted to copy AMYBT's info and post it to all surgeons of this nature in the UK.

Ok I had my surgery in June 2009 at Weston General Hospital. It was done on the NHS by Mr Ian Harding. Mr Harding does both NHS and Private operations and has a website which you can look at if you wish. Just type Ian harding into Google and you will find his pages.

I had a microdiscectomy and my incision site is less than 1 inch. The op took less than an hour and was up walking to the toilet an hour later.. I had an overnight stay as my op was not done til 2.30pm with a general anaesthetic. It is done under a day case but only if surgery done before 12pm.

I saw physio the next morning to ensure I could walk unaided and manage stairs and was sent home that afternoon. I was given what appears to be the same leaflet as Amy and was given a follow up appointment for 6 weeks with Mr Harding.

I had a physio appointment at 6 weeks also but they discharged me with no further appts as I didnt need them. I was back teaching my exercise classes at 4 weeks and have never looked back since. I will say it did take a year to feel completely normal but have had no pain in legs or back since the op.

Hope this gives you the info you want, if not let me know.

Regards
Firbird

Tahnk you Fitbird.

Thanks for the info Fitbird.

I have researched Mr. Ian Harding previously, along with his colleagues Mr. John Hutchinson and Ian Nelson. These Guys are 'great examples' of the 'better' standard procedure Spinal Surgeons I mentioned. Bristol is certainly one of the Spinal Centres of Excelence in the UK with a good reputation, and as I understand it, any English patient can 'elect' to be referred to the Bristol Spine Units as of right.

Sadly for those of us who live in Wales, Bristol is classed as an 'out of area' location, and unless I am considered to be somehow who would benefit 'more' than an average spinal pain sufferer (what ever an average sufferer is!), I will not be allowed to gain funding nor a referral to any Bristol NHS Spine Surgeon for treatment on the NHS.

I do however have these Surgeons on my radar, with a view to getting a referral to them
for 'private' treatment, although I am still 'unclear' as to what procedure they carry out that does not require a 'vertibral window' on the approach throught the vertibrae.
I have previously written to him asking about the procedures being carried out there, to see if they are worth paying for privately, but I did not hear back come to think of it,
I'll try again. Thanks for the reminder!

The other block to treatment from my point of view, is that the L5/S1 level pains and inflamation that I have complained about for 7 years, have been ignored or played down
by 6 Surgeons. They do not consider this level 'a target area' in spite of 'overwhelming indicators' in support. Therefore, any NHS based Surgeon will also refuse to operate on issus at this level, if they base their decisions on recent 'inconclusive' NHS MRI scans.

I think I will need to get better quality non-NHS MRI scans done, to try and make them take these symptoms seriously.

Thank again Fitbird.

Spinelf

Thanks Fitbird 🙂

Elfie, I have had private MRI's done twice now both times at MK's request. I paid extra for a copy of the scan on cd. We read the report and then he showed me on the cd what other substantial pain causes and problems with my spine and discs that had been left out. It was amazing and very, very sad and scarey.

Thanks Fitbird 🙂 Elfie, I have had private MRI's done twice now both times at MK's request. I paid extra for a copy of the scan on cd. We read the report and then he showed me on the cd what other substantial pain causes and problems with my spine and discs that had been left out. It was amazing and very, very sad and scarey.

I know what you mean Cassie, I had the same experience with Mr. Knight myself.

I had complained about head and neck pains to NHS Consultants for years, they always told me that my long standing 'lumber spine pains' and my 'head & neck' issues were 'unrelated' and that it was very difficult to diagnose! This was in spite of the fact, that after I have received an NHS 'nerve root block injection' at my L4/5 lumbar level that 'completely cleared' all of my lumber spine pains,
all of my head pains went as well.

These head pains only came back after the 'block injection' had worn off, the same time that my lumber spine pains came back!! coincedence? I don't think so!!
Because the same thing happened during my 'second' injection as well!!!

Mr. Knight never desputed the conection from the get go, and ordered a 'load bearing'
X-ray which confirmed the vertibral imbalance causing the transfer of stress to my upper body, and thereby creating 'T' & 'C' spinal misalignments, right up to the sub-occipital muscles under the skull.

I think the standard and quality of MRI and X-ray scans (and reporting) needs to improve, if we in the UK are to see a significant improvement in spinal care.
Look up 'IN MOTION X-RAYS' and Dynamic X-ray (DMX) and view the videos to see where we 'truely should be' in terms of superior and modern diagnostics!

All the best Cassie.

SPINELF

Jedi spine surgery.

I can't belive I'm still reading stuff on this site and reading the same old bleak and repetitive things. MISS this and MISS that . Mr Kinght and bla bla .
I had a L5 S1 or what ever it was hernia . Had the MRI was given the lowdown by the surgeon . I was informed . I made the choice and had a surgery and it was all good . But then I found this site and started reading posts . God it's scary some of the doom and gloom on here . I was worried because of what I was reading . I had a chat with my surgeon and he said " All that stuff you read is mainly BS , don't pay attention . Trust me and your PT. "
I'm at the 3 month stage now and was sacked by the surgeon . He said that I was a legend and wished me all the best. I have a small scar 1" I have a bit of pain in the mornings that goes in 5 mins . I follow my training plan and I'm enjoying life.
I now feel this way. If you need the surgery , roll the dice and get it done . You might get hit by a bus tomorrow . DONT sit round pooping on other folks parades on a forum where we might ju st want some POSITIVE posts.

Hummmmmm haaaa . That's off the chest now.

Hope you feel better for that now?

A 1 inch scar would be a result for most people here. We aren't moaning for no reason or making up stories, we are real people with real experiences.

I can't belive I'm still reading stuff on this site and reading the same old bleak and repetitive things. MISS this and MISS that . Mr Kinght and bla bla .
I had a L5 S1 or what ever it was hernia . Had the MRI was given the lowdown by the surgeon . I was informed . I made the choice and had a surgery and it was all good . But then I found this site and started reading posts . God it's scary some of the doom and gloom on here . I was worried because of what I was reading . I had a chat with my surgeon and he said " All that stuff you read is mainly BS , don't pay attention . Trust me and your PT. "
I'm at the 3 month stage now and was sacked by the surgeon . He said that I was a legend and wished me all the best. I have a small scar 1" I have a bit of pain in the mornings that goes in 5 mins . I follow my training plan and I'm enjoying life.
I now feel this way. If you need the surgery , roll the dice and get it done . You might get hit by a bus tomorrow . DONT sit round pooping on other folks parades on a forum where we might ju st want some POSITIVE posts.
Hummmmmm haaaa . That's off the chest now.

Talk about missing the point!

The reason why I and others talk about Mr. Martin Knight, ELFD and MISS in general,
is because he is the only Spine Surgeon in the UK who is 'openly practicing' a modern ‘minimally invasive’ surgical procedure that is ‘specifically designed’ to attempt spinal decompression surgery 'whilst minimizing' the amount of the 'collateral damage' to nerves, tissue, muscle and vertebrae that is a common feature with 'so called' gold standard spinal surgery. There are loads of world wide trial results and peer reviewed papers for these MISS procedures available online. Did your Surgeon give you this type of evidence for you to research, before you became so completely informed?

Don't get me wrong, we are all glad that you are benefiting from your procedure at this time and are pleased that you are looking forward with a positive outlook. However, you must understand, that many forum members who have suffered with long term chronic back pain (10-20 years +) sometimes already have failed surgical procedures behind them, and have not been as lucky as you were. Remember, all the positivity in the world, is 'never' going to decompress an osteophyte impingement of a nerve root!

These fellow sufferers of ours, have sometimes already 'rolled the dice and got it done' as you say, perhaps more than once, only to find that all the 'flannel and ego boosting' in the world, has not made a blind bit of difference 'at all' to their suffering. Some ‘other legends' may have found that their conditions, to have greatly deteriorated at 1, 3, and 5 years post op.

It is these fellow sufferers, as well as the fortunate ones, that we wish to support, help and give guidance to allow them to make the right choice, NOT FOR US, but for them and their families!

We understand that there are Great Spinal Surgeons out there, who are giving their patients very good and long term clinical outcomes, even though they use standard or traditional procedures (as Fitbird would attest), and we don't dispute that fact for a minute, but as you intimated yourself Ex pom, it is a 'dice rolling' lottery!!
We want to change this hit and miss approach and encourage Spine Surgeons to make improvements in what ever the procedures they use!

I have to say though, once again, members attacking our attempts to inform and enlighten fellow sufferers are offering little in the way of facts and figures to entice us 'non-believers' to 'roll the dice'. For example, I note that you say that your 'scar' is 1 inch long, good, I’m glad for you, but you have not disclosed what the 'incision' size was during the operation, or what the procedure type you had!
Potential patients who are looking for information and who read this forum, need this detailed information to make an informed and calculated choice!

I don’t really understand your view point, perhaps you (and possibly others):

Think that sufferers should suffer in silence.
Think that, we have had our chance, been unlucky and should except our lot.
Believe that we should let sleeping dogs lay.
Think that we should not ask for detailed information, facts and figures from Surgeons.
Believe that only forum members with 'positive outcomes' should be allowed to post.

Sorry Ex pom, none of this is not going to happen any time soon!

Also, there are many positive outcome stories, as well as non invasive therapy improvements stories being posted on this site, so please read them, as you will find that we are right there, in support, and right behind our fellow sufferers!

So even though we have clearly offended your sensitivities Ex Pom,
we will not be 'brow beaten' in to silence, So stop trying to shoot the messengers!

SPINELF

Ok what ever dude.
I'd rather be a lion for a day than a sheep or ever !
I see your point . But still what ever . I think my scar was the same size from when the blade went in till it came
My medical note said . Simple micro discectomy .

Are you serious?

Ok what ever dude.

What ever dude? Really??

Rsi

What ever dude? Really??

it's nice to see that you DON'T always have over long winded replys . I wonder if you suffer finger and wrist pain from all the typing you do. AND looking at he amount of time you have bein a member if you saved a couple of quid a day you could go and have Knight poke around in your back untill he heals your pain !
So taff chill out dude. Ha ha ha . Hold your chin up

Expom do you have to be quite so rude?
This is a forum where people come to offer help, support and discuss their own experiences. Not somewhere to be insulting to a fellow member. If you dont like or agree with something another member says, there are better ways of saying so.

You have been lucky with your surgery but not everybody has.

Fitbird

Shame there isn't a 'dislike' post button! Hmmmph.

Yes

Expom do you have to be quite so rude?
This is a forum where people come to offer help, support and discuss their own experiences. Not somewhere to be insulting to a fellow member. If you dont like or agree with something another member says, there are better ways of saying so.

You have been lucky with your surgery but not everybody has.

Fitbird

In this one off rare case yes. 100% . Let me set the scene.
You have a OP. Then you fancy having a look for some other folks experiences and find this site.. Like the lady that started this thread , you soon feel like the UK is full of doctors and surgeons that don't really like there patients. Spinelf calls them the old boys club.
So you have a post or two on here . Bang All the. Sort of private questions . Who where and why . Fit bird even you held out for ages before you decided to tell who and what type of surgery you had. Even after a said I had a small scar Mr Grumpy doubts me . Then hints that in 1 , 3 or 5 years down the line it will all go wrong. Pessimistic or what.
Perhaps every one moves to Bristol for a good surgery .
Fitbird I think your good . Just because there are senior members out there dose not make them right .

you soon feel like the UK is full of doctors and surgeons that don't really like there patients. Spinelf calls them the old boys club.

Perhaps every one moves to Bristol for a good surgery .

Fitbird I think your good . Just because there are senior members out there dose not make them right .

Fitbird. Thank you! For showing your support for ‘all’ of the forum members who actually want to be involved in intelligible discussions and debates, in order to reduce their real suffering and to improve the quality of their families lives.

Ex pom, your last post clearly shows, that you only just see the tip of the medical iceberg!!

Case in point, over the last 3 years, 5 of the biggest NHS spinal units in the UK, could not provide evidence to prove, how safe, effective or how appropiate their Decompression Surgery is/was.
So just how worried do you think we should be??

Not move to Bristol Ex pom, but we should all be allowed get treatment there, as of right!!

Don't worry though Ex pom, I 'have' been saving my 'couple of quid’s' and I am ‘already’ in discussion with Mr. Martin Knight regarding my 'second' decompression operation at The Spinal Foundation.

I have 2 target areas to address, L5/S1 and L1/2, it's just a matter of picking the most beneficial and gainful one to be operated on first, by Mr. Knight of course!

Because I cannot afford a 'third' procedure at The Spinal Foundation, the ‘least’ gainful target level will probably be operated on by an NHS Surgeon, just like many other members I post with here on the HP forum. However, another member has opened up the possibility of an alternative low cost MISS decompression procedure overseas! So we will see!

You see Ex pom, I know these facts because ‘I have’ spent so much time on this site, engaging with literate, caring and knowledgeable fellow sufferers! So as you can see Ex pom: This time is not wasted.

AAWWW NO LOOK!! I dun spook to much words again!!

On behalf of these fellow sufferers, I would respectfully ask, If you take away just 2 positive words from this forum, please let them be these, ‘spell check’

SPINELF

Expom. Not that I have to explain any reasons to you, but I dont visit this site everyday so was not aware members were asking me about my op. When I saw the posts I was more than happy to answer any questions about my surgery.

I consider myself one of the lucky ones and so should you!

Fitbird