Puffy Eyes and Face

RE: Puffy Eyes and Face

Hi Janet - Whatdoes 'die-off' mean with regard to your antifungal/bacterial treatments - my interpretation of the term die-off isthe elimination of a species, population, or community of plants or animals as a result of natural causes!
Could the puffiness you describe be caused by congested lymphatics in the face and neck? How about MLD (manual lymph drainage) to help relieve the swelling?

RE: Puffy Eyes and Face

Hi
Die-off is what you normally go through if you do a candida cleanse.
Not sure what it is but I thought someone might come up with something before I see the Dr on Friday I think it might be allergy related but not sure what to.

RE: Puffy Eyes and Face

Hi Janet - puffy eyes & face does sound like a classic (IgE & histamine related) allergy, so an antihistamine may help as asort term solution for the immediate symptoms.
It could be triggered by pretty much anything, but would start with potential contactant allergens - things that are actually coming into contact with face & eyes. i.e. make up, cleansers (incl. soap), detergents, fabric softeners (on towel), etc.
Environmental allergens are the next suspect. i.e. dust & dust mites, mould & fungi spours, animal dander, etc.

Failing that it could be pretty much anything, including foods.

A reaction to antifungals could be a good sign, but depends how severe. It could be due to fallout/die off of the problem yeasts giving your system more to deal with. This usually passes in a few days.

Are you by any chance allergic to penicillin?

Pencillin allergy occurs in about 10% of the population and seems to be a major trigger for candida syndrome and the subsequent 'leaky gut' theory.

The connection with penicillin allergyis that it is derived from a certain type of mould, which like yeasts, comeunder the broader heading of fungi.

It's a bit chicken & egg, which came first the allergy or the yeast infection?

I'm of the opinion that allergies appear first, but if severe or long term, thenboth may need addressing. Suggest NAETfor allergies (have talked about elsewhere on HP), but may need to do anti-candida diet also, in the short term. Think I've done that one too. 😉

Andrew.

RE: Puffy Eyes and Face

PS
Re. Seeing your GP.

Whilst the majority of medics still think this idea is hocum, there is a growing minority that are taking the evidence seriously. It sounds like your GP may be one of them, if they have prescribed antifungals in the first place.

Good luck - Andrew.

RE: Puffy Eyes and Face

Believe me the die-off is pretty bad and I have a high pain level - if i thought it was only for a few days I would continue but when I tried antifungals last year I was still suffering 6 weeks on and really couldn't go on with it.
I've been to the Dr. this morning who has diagnosed an allergy - not sure to what - and he has prescribed antihistamines.
Is there an alternative I could take rather than antihistamines? Difficult when I don't know what it is I'm allergic to but I do get hayfever.

RE: Puffy Eyes and Face

PS - will I get die-off symptoms from antihistamines?

RE: Puffy Eyes and Face

Alledgedly, there's an old saying amongst doctors:-
"I'd rather see an elephant walk into my office than a patient with hives."

I think the point hereis thatif it's an allergy, then they're probably as much in the dark as the patient & may be more so.

Antihisatmines won't cause die off, they will simply reducehistamine levels, which may calm down the immediate symptoms, but not get to the bottom of it.

Has GP referred you for allergy tests?

The type of symptoms that you describe sound like the classic (IgE) variety and should even show up with a simple scratch test.

Unfortunately there's usually a long waiting listing in most areas. Was 4 years in our area last time I checked.

The below Threads discuss the alternatives for allergy testing.

[link= http://www.healthypages.net/forum/tm.asp?m=134334&mpage=1&key=Allergy%2CTest&#136384 ]http://www.healthypages.net/forum/tm.asp?m=134334&mpage=1&key=Allergy%2CTest&#136384[/link]

[link= http://www.healthypages.net/forum/tm.asp?m=123811&mpage=1&key=Allergy%2CTest&#123888 ]http://www.healthypages.net/forum/tm.asp?m=123811&mpage=1&key=Allergy%2CTest&#123888[/link]

There are several Threads about candida also. Try using the Forum Search function - Right of Centre Head ofpage.

After 6 weeks you shouldn't still be experiencing 'die off'. Suspect most likely cause of symptoms after this time is;-

• An adverse reaction (allergenic or otherwise) to the antifungal, in which case GP could try you on another. There aren't many pharmaceutical ones to try though.
• That you were still eating something that was either feeding or aggravating the candida.

Failing that you may end up having to see someone that deals with this sort of thing on a regular basis. I'd suggest a NAET practitioner, but I am biased on that front.

European database of practitioners here - [link= http://www.naeteurope.com/gb_default.asp ]http://www.naeteurope.com/gb_default.asp[/link]

Andrew.

RE: Puffy Eyes and Face

Thanks again.
I've took the antihistamines over the weekend and although it clears up one problem it seems to give me a rather tight chest. I have tested allergywise for pollen, grass, trees and dogs about 3 years ago but I am confusedcould I be suffering hayfever at the moment at this time of year but having said that this has gone on for about 6 weeks before Xmas. Dr. just said it was an allergy.
I hate taking antihistamines as a few years ago I had to take them for about 6 months and you do get side effects from them.
I am wondering if it would be worthwhile going to see a homeopath and do this a more natural way as I hate the thought of being on antihistamines for days on end.

RE: Puffy Eyes and Face

PS What else would feed candida.
Not sure if you have heard of Bio-nase - two prongs that go in your nostril and is a non-evasive form of treating allergies and sinus problems - used this last week and seemed to help.

RE: Puffy Eyes and Face

Haven't heard of that one, unless it's just one of those devices that increases nasal airflow.

The whole candida albicans thing is a huge subject and one of my soap box subjects, but as such I've already covered the basics on other Threads. If you do a forum search on 'candida' with my user name as author, then it'll throw up all my previous rantings on the subject.

Things that feed or aggravate candida are simple sugars, yeasts, moulds & fungi and their derivatives. Sounds simple - it's not.

Fruits,nuts,cheeses, etc.,if not very fresh have natural yeasts & moulds on them.

If it's breached the gut blood barier, then there are natural glucose levels that need to be maintained in the blood.

It can flip between being in a yeast & fungal state, so whilst antifungals drugs or natural antifungals (i.e. tea tree, pau d'arco, garlic, golden seal, olive leaf, etc) maytake out the fungal stuff, butwon't kill the yeast form.

It is also adaptible in other ways, so rotate the little that you can eat and anything you take to keep it at bay. Vegetarians are on a hiding to nothing with this thing due to limit of food variation that doesn't aggravate it.Not only does it adapt to survive on what is available, butit's all tied in with the 'leaky gut' theory and allergies.

I tried pretty much anything and everything over the years (most of my life) orthodox & alternative and a large part of what I donow is probably becauseI wouldn't want to see anyone going though that. Don't get me wrong some things helped, but they only kept me going in a fashion until I finally cracked it with NAET a couple of years ago.

Andrew.

RE: Puffy Eyes and Face

How long did the NAET take to "crack it"? I would do a candida cleanse but I just cannot and I honestly mean cannot stand the die-off - ifI knew die-off would last a couple of days then fine but last year when I was eating natural yoghurt that produced die-off symptoms and 6 weeks down the line I was still going through it - I wish there was easier way to get rid of it.

RE: Puffy Eyes and Face

In most cases when you clearallergies & sensitivities, for basic foods (including protiens, sugars, etc) & issues with nutrients, then this enables the body to absorb & utilise nutrients as it should. This allows the immune system to build up and the gut to heal.
Often this is enough for the system to correct the dysbiosis and the friendly bacteria or probiotics to gain dominance over the parasitic yeasts & fungi.

Some are helped in the meantime by taking pro & prebiotics and following an anti candida diet, although with some avoidance can increase sensitivity, but those can be dealt with at a later date if need be. And can actually include sensitivity to acidophilus itself, which presumably is caused bydirect contact with blood.

Andrew.

RE: Puffy Eyes and Face

So just by eliminating certain foods without supplements could help. I don't think I really have food allergies as I've just had the results from the York test only coming back with an allergy to melons and potatoes of which I eat neither so am I presuming wrongly that there still could be some sensitivity even though a blood test didn't show it up? Or have I got this wrong.
Also would digestive enzymes help at this time with regards to allergies?

RE: Puffy Eyes and Face

Hi Janet
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RE: Puffy Eyes and Face

Wow - thanks for that!

RE: Puffy Eyes and Face

I support most of SkinBiz's Post, despite it reading like an advertisement, and would like to add & clarify a few points.

• 'Bacteria are responsible for every major function in living organisms' - Whilst I accept that it's likely that we could not survive or even have come into existence without bacteria. So in a very indirect way you could say the sameabout a mutitiude of things, so the statement in itself needs more justification than a few examples. I'm particularly interested in the -'Cleaning cholesterol out of the blood' - scenario.
• Another one that I'd be very interested in a reference for is - 'Production of endotoxins in the GI Tract contributing to lupus erythematosus, psoriasis and other conditions such as pancreatitis.'
• RE. • 'Allows partially digested proteins to enter the bloodstream contributing to eczema, nervous system disorders, rheumatoid arthritis and a variety of immune system disorders.' Whilst I am a great support of this theory and believe this to be the case, I don't believe that stating theories as fact helps in the argument in anyway. The only reasonsI can think of doing this is to either knowingly orinnocently mislead others in support of selling a product as a 'cure all'.
• As to the best way of taking probiotics, then I would agree with 30 mins before food & add that it should be with water only. Adding fruit or fruit juice can not onlyadd to the pool of competing yeasts & bacteria, but also feeds them. If you add anything, then I would suugest that it be prebiotics in the form of fructo-oligiosaccarides. A form of sugar that can only be utilsed by the friendly bacteria species & not the parasitic types. Also, I would take them with warm water to try and sneek them though the stomach without triggering acid production that's likely to destroy. Obviously not from the hot tap.
• Finally andwith regard to allergies, hypersensitivities & intolerances - if we think the whole leaky gut / bowel theory thru a bit further.Then one might consider that anything that gets into the blood stream that shouldn't be thereand is therefore identified by the immune system as 'noneself' rather than 'self', then it will most likely launch an attack on what it sees as an invader. So you would have to include any 'Lactobacillus (friendly) bacteria' in the concept and conclude that not only that some may become hypersensitive or allergic tothis as a result and that not only should it be more important to restore the health to the gut wall first, but also there may be some that may need desensitising to Lactobacillusbacteria themselves.

The last point isthe most important IMHO & experience as I have needed to to treat many with for hypersensitivity / allergy to lactobacillus acidophilus before complete resolution of problemis achieved.The truth is that I don't know if this is actually a common problem as many cases I see have already tried a range of different approaches before trying NAET.

Andrew.

RE: Puffy Eyes and Face

Thanks for that.
I underwent the QXCI treatment on Monday and found the whole experience really scary. After the treatment I felt quite tired then hot, then cold and about 6 hours afterwards I could feel the treatment sort of "leaving" my body - it was a real strange experience.
However since the treatment last Monday I am having quite bad detox symptoms - it's like I habve one good day then one bad day and the first couple of days the symptoms seemed to be different every day but the ones that I have at the moment is still feeling tired, and really bad muscle/joint pain which has hit the back, neck, arms, legs and knees and the horrible feeling of coldness. So I'm just now wishing I hadn't gone as I hate feeling like this but because it is done by machines I don't know how much was given and how long I will experience this detox. It's been nearly a week now and thought I would have started to feel better. The puffy face and eyes were loads better but since the treatment they are now much worse! So all in all I'm not impressed!

RE: Puffy Eyes and Face

Anhata
Are you saying that you can be allergic to probiotic like acidophilus etc.? If you are how do you get friendly bacteria into you?

RE: Puffy Eyes and Face

Yes, that's what I'm saying. Any lactobacillus, including acidophillus, can also trigger a reaction in some that have become sensitised.

Essentially it's a foreign protein that is 'non-self' in the blood stream, so an immune reaction could result.

I believe the best way forwards is to clear the allergies & sensitivities with NAET, which should start to get appropriate nutrition into the system to build up the immune system, gut function & general health. Then supplement as appropriate if need be.

Andrew.

RE: Puffy Eyes and Face

What if you can't find a therapist in your area - what other choices would one have?

RE: Puffy Eyes and Face

Anahata
I'm curious to know what would happen if you did take acidophilus and you had allergy to it -what would happen or would you just be able to ride the storm and come out OK at the other end.
Not sure if you can help me on this. When I had the QXCI treatment the practitioner put a bottle of acidophilus on the part of the machine that holds our remedy and is supposed to vibrate through the system. She said to me that as the vibrations had taken the acidophillus into the remedy my body would now recognise it and I would be able to take it without any reactions? Is this correct - do you think I would be able to take probiotics now? Not sure if I am convinced of this or not or is it a sales ploy? The probiotic she recommended actually cost £30 to buy - I can't afford that as I am unemployed at the moment! If you could help with this query would be so grateful.

RE: Puffy Eyes and Face

🙂 🙂Hi Janet
Sounds like your system is very out of balance.
I feel for you.
You cannot be allergic to pro-biotic.
If it is a commercial probiotic its probably full of sugars and synthetics.
You may be sensitive to ingredients in it.
The probiotic I recommend - if you refer tomy previous post to you - is food and not medicine.
Taken regularly it puts the balance of good bacteria back.
It seems to me that all the treatments you are having are throwing your system into turmoil.
You seem to begut sensitive so I would suggest 1/8 teaspoon each daymixed in 1/4 glass fresh juice or water1/2 hourbefore meals. This way the good bacteria assimilate into your system and are not competing with other foods.
What are you using topically on your skin? Are your products chemical/syntheticfree?It all gets into our system.
Also try and eat organic food.
There are multitudes of chemicals sprayed over our fruits and vegetables. This will decrease your exposure to chemicals/pesticides.
Good Luck
Skinbiz

RE: Puffy Eyes and Face

Hi Janet, sorry for not getting back sooner.

With regard toother options that i'd recommend, then top of listwas -seeing someone that uses an EAV (electro acupucnture (according to Dr) Voll) system, which is exactly what you've done. On the surface it proabably seemed like esoteric nonesense but there is actually a lot of science behind it. Put it this way Dr Voll was a German, much of the technology has been developed in Germany, where it's very popular. If they'll forgive me for making a sweeping generalisation - Germans tend to be very logical & scientific in their approach to most things.

From what you say, then I'm in little doubt that the therapist you saw ran a program to desensitise you for lactobacillus, so it's likely that you're now okay on that front. So yes I think supplementing with a probiotic is a good idea. Also cutting out any obvious suspects that may be aggravating your symptoms, i.e. the usual suspects;- sugars, yeast & wheat, but don't go too mad on that front.

Recommending a product & selling one are two different things. If the person recommending it also says that they happen to have or you can only get here, then they amount to the same, whether that be a 'professional' you consult or a 'Poster' on HP or elsewhere.

There are lots of different varieties of probiotic supplements and price wise they start at about £5 from your local helath food shop. I have reservations about the supermarket variety for those that are hypersensitive as they are ladened with sugar or artificial sweetners. There is only one groupof sugars that should be okay, which are fructo-oligosaccharides. This is the type of sugar that you get in onions and the likes of candida & its friends are unable to digest it.

Iusually advise switching brands, as that will vary the species that you are trying to get in your system. Different companies will rave about different species of lactobacilli, but the truth is we still don't know which is best and it's most likely that having a range of different probiotics in our system is the most beneficial approach.

It's easy to make your own live yoghurt and you can add to the brew a capsule of a probiotic capsule to to get a wider spectrum of probiotics. Taken in the form of yoghurt then take on an empty stomach 20-30 mins before a meal, diluting with water, taking at room or ideally body temperature in smaller, rather than larger amounts. Remember your trying to get it through the stomach without kicking off the stomach acid.

Am interested to hear from skinbiz anyqualification or supporting evidence for;-

You cannot be allergic to pro-biotic.

It may help to consider that probiotics are still forms of bacteriaand as helpfulas they might be when confined to thegut are likely to be identified in the blood as foreign protein based organisms that shouldn't be there.So what's the most likley response from the immune system? [sm=scratchchin.gif]

If it is a commercial probiotic its probably full of sugars and synthetics.

Presumably by the term commercial, then I gather it's produced & sold for profit. So, am I right in thinking that the one that you specifically recommend is not?
If that's the case, then maybe you could provide some free samples for Janet and I'm happy to ask my biochemist colleague to look at it also. 😉

Andrew.

RE: Puffy Eyes and Face

Thanks for that - with regard to probiotics there are so many on the market that I'm not too sure what to look for.
With regard to the QXCI treatment - although the muscle pains have now gone the thing that is really concerning me is the coldness I am experiencing. Just not coping with this at all and if the heating is not up high I feel so freezing cold all the time - I was fine before I had the treatment so is it related and what can I do to help get rid of this side effect - I've had too really bad episodes where I have literally been shaking and shivering with coldness. This is worrying me now.

RE: Puffy Eyes and Face

I tend to recommend a medium priced one, with several types ofbacilli listed on labeland keep in the fridge.

Many now are supposed to be stable at room temperature, butthis may keep more bacteria alive for longer.

RE. Treatment & current state.

It's a bit like working throught the layers of an onion. It's likley that you've acquired these allergies/ sensitivities over a long period, so they're unlikley to go away over night. There isn't a quick fix that I know of, so we just have to work through them individually or in associated groups.

Usually as you clear one, then the next priority comes up to the surface, which may seem as bad and some may even seem worse, but I think this is because as you clear them general health improves. So there's a bigger difference between your 'normal' and when you're reacting to something.

So I would continue with treatment, unless you feel that they were giving you the hard sell, then look for something similar. If the problem is finances, then you could ask if they do a concessionary rate as some practioners do. That said, then these EAV systems are very expensive, so they may feel unable to unless they're not very busy.

Andrew.

RE: Puffy Eyes and Face

Hi
Not sure if she was doing a hard sell or not but she did seem to promote the brand she uses and when I rang her later on asking questions she gave me the phone number of the company and when I checked their website that is when I saw the prices. I did tell her at the initial session that I couldn't afford the supplements she was recommending as there were about three she said for me to take. Also when I rang her she said to me that I perhaps needed a good multi vit plus Vit C to support the system - but having said that she never said that to me at the initial session. I think she knew what she was talking about but I did notice that she didn't have any letters after her name but there were a couple of certificates hanging on her wall. All she said to me was that she had dabbled all her life in alternative therapies.
My thoughts were that the symptoms seem to be working their way down the body and perhaps because the legs are the worst at the moment it is now working it's way out. But I won't be going back for another treatment as I honestly have to say that I felt 100% better in myself than I have since I had it. I've had four weeks of feeling absolutely terrible which has literally put my job search on hold at the moment as I have felt too ill to go and actually do a job at the moment. Even my mood has gone down since her treatment and before I had it I can honestly say I felt upbeat and very energetic. I'm putting it down to a very costly and scary learning curve. My thoughts are even now to go see a homeopath (one I've used before and knows my medical history) and see what she can advise.
Thanks for your input though it has been very helpful. Will keep you informed of progress.

RE: Puffy Eyes and Face

I've had a further look at the QXCI system and still think it looks good in theory. I would say that it does seem to try and cover an awful lot at once, which may not be the best approach. Also, that the makers/marketersseem to be keen on selling to anyone that can stump up the cash.
(I'm happy to be corrected on that if anyone knows better.)

Usually with EAV & other simillar systems, then training & certification is part of the deal, but the QZCI folks seem to go with a manuals & videos will suffice idea. Whichcould work if they insisted on a certain level of already acquired qualifications, but not sure that they do.

Not that letters after your name are always the 'be all & end all', but it is some indication that someone may know a bit of what they are talking about & doing.

All she said to me was that she had dabbled all her life in alternative therapies.

TBH - that doesn't sound too good - holistic & complementary medicine, unfortunately is overloaded with dabblers. Often they've jumped on the band wagon because they've failed to find fulfilment in IT & commerce,wake up one morning & feeldrawn to being a 'healer'and with all the media hype think that there's money to be made.

Ouch! [:@]Well that's my gripes out of the way. 😀

This is why I was hesitant when you asked about the other most likely options that would help.

Generally advise that you have a proper look at any displayed certificates. Any professional should be happy to explain their qualifications on request - that's what they are there for.

All that said and from what you say as to how you've felt since - as grim as you may feel the treatment still may have helped.

As I said the QXCI does seem to throw a lot at someone in one go, which is probably fine for most, but for someone with a lot going on , then it could knock them sideways for several weeks. This could just be the proverbial 'healing crisis' on a larger scale.

A change in symptoms could just be the next priority coming to the surface, which will probably level offand feeling down is explainable in terms of - if your system has corrected something that has been keeping you tense/driving you (i.e. depedence on stress hormones, etc.), then take that away then we're left with getting used to a more normal existance. Until your system has time to adjust, then this can be very depressing.

I hope by now your starting to perk up - Andrew.

RE: Puffy Eyes and Face

Thanks for that - I was a bit concerned actually when I didn't see formal qualificcations and was also a bit worried about the dabbling too - think she knew what she was talking about but she did make a comment about "still learning everything it does". Think the failing with her was that although I filled out a health questionnaire which in my opinion was more focused on candida she didn't know enough about me as a person and just went "for it" - I agree totally that in one treatment it was a bit on "overload" too much in one go.
I seem to be having good days and bad days and the only problems I am having are this weird feeling of coldness in the thighs which goes down to just under the knees - but it's not there all the time which I find strange.
But the last few days I've had this really dry mouth and lips and the throat seems very red (could be going down with something) so all I can do is just keep riding the storm.
Someone did suggest that I do go and see a homeopath as it is almost like the "peeling of the onion" I just seem to be taking of layer by layer only to find yet another strange symptom.
I will keep you posted and again thank you. I wish I lived nearer to your practice.
One question - does NAET produce side effects like what I've been going through?

RE: Puffy Eyes and Face

What feeds candida? Yeast

What causes puffy eyes ? Sometimes it can be wheat with yeast in it.

I would cut out all wheat and any products that contain yeast.

All dairy except for cream cheese, mozerella, cream, butter.

Also feels like you are lacking in calcium and minerals like zinc and potassium.

Love kim xx