I read this book a number of years ago and often wondered if what they say about men is true.
Part of the book mentions that men go into their cave when they have a problem – which basically means they like to be left alone and that the last thing they want is :
a. to talk about the problem
b. for women to try and get them to come out of their cave by asking “What’s wrong”, “Lets talk about this issue”.
When men do come out of their cave – they can be even more loving than before (if they haven't been nagged out that is :p).
Does this ring true for any men out there or for any woman in a relationship (married, going out with someone) ??
I’m just fascinated as my OH can be loving for weeks and weeks – yet when there’s a problem he withdraws into himself and can be “colder” towards me – which I find hard as there’s nothing I can do to help and nothing I’ve done that's wrong. Also I’m kinda thinking when everything's great “Everything’s tickety-boo here – he loves me and everything is wonderful” and then “Bam” he’s into this mood again – which baffles me and I can’t help him with it. As I love helping people – it can be hurtful going through this.
An example is that everything has been great over Christmas and new year – then this weekend he’s been colder with me because his kids read my texts to him (which is their fault and his fault) plus his father is unwell. Obviously when his Dad is unwell I don’t expect him to be smiling or anything – but I just find it upsetting when he’s cold towards me. If I say “Why are you angry with me ?” he says “I’m not!”.
Any similar experiences anyone ??
P.S. – I’m not knocking men here - just interested to know how other men behave, whether any forum users can relate to this and whether this behaviour is “typical” (like it says in the book).
Hi Happygirl,
This is only my own point of view but I think a great deal of why men are so different from women is because they are taught from a very young age not to show their emotions because if they throw a wobbler they are told they are a 'jessie' or god forbid they should cry they are a sissy or worse.
From a young age I should imagine men find a way to cope with whatever is going on for them, us girls pick up the phone and tell our girlie-friends, our Mum etc the most I have ever heard my OH say to one of his mates when he's been in crisis is "bit p****ed off mate, how did Man Utd do today?"
When my other half has been sad or down about something in the past and I have offered to lend an ear he's looked at me like I have two heads!
It will help you understand more if you get the Codependence book I told you about, it explains a lot about the spiritualy and emotionaly dishonest societies we grow up in the way each of us have to deny what we really feel for fear of condemnation, abuse, humilation etc.
Hope this helps glad you had a good Christmas and new year together.
Love and Peace
Rebecca XXXXXXXXXXX
Interesting thread.... the book you mention is a little similar to "why men don't listen and women can't read maps", by Allan and Barbara Pease. I think, these generalisations tend to relate to about 80% or so of the population.
I don't tend to go quiet when I have a problem and do talk to my partner about it. However, my partner tends to go into his cave and come out again ready to talk (albeit he's got much better at not doing this!). We've got quite a few straight male friends - half of which seem to go into the cave and half that don't.....:confused: Not sure where this leaves them in terms of the book.
I tend to agree with Beckyboop - I think some of it is about nurture and how we were brought up.
As a blokey, I concur. I guess us blokes don't tend to talk about our feelings so much (although I've been told I do myself, yet I know I used to go into my cave a lot in the past, perhaps not so much nowadays as I progress with my own emotional health ;)).
It's something that is clearly obvious when treating clients with EFT/FREEWAY-CER etc. Female clients are most willing to open up and talk about things except when it get's a little personal and then they will after a little prodding persuasion and reassurance of confidentiality, whereas male clients are difficult to get anything out of from the start... which is where NLP techniques come in handy cos you can tell them "I can see that there is something else bothering you in relation to XXXXXX that we just talked about". Once they know you know, they come out of their shell a little more. It takes a bit of prising but you can get there eventually.
It tends to be that my other half and myself are like nuns in a convent, when she's on a downer, it tends to bring me down a little to and then she comments that we're both having our time of the month together. hehe! 😉
Love and Reiki Hugs
Where is this cave? It must be full of some right moody b***ers!
I think it is generally true, though. Certainly, my wife can be amazed that I'll spend ages on the phone to male friends - talking mostly about football, probably - and at the end she'll ask "So, how is he? How's his wife?"
I don't know - how should I know?
On the other hand, men can certainly open up, given the right circumstances. When my wife was suffering from severe depression, her consultant got together a discussion group of sufferers' partners. We were all male, and I wondered if we'd all sit there silently, avoiding eye contact, but it was the complete opposite. Once we got going, he could hardly shut us up, and the meeting only finished when the caretaker insisted on us all leaving so he could go home.
I read this book a number of years ago and often wondered if what they say about men is true.
Part of the book mentions that men go into their cave when they have a problem – which basically means they like to be left alone and that the last thing they want is :
a. to talk about the problem
b. for women to try and get them to come out of their cave by asking “What’s wrong”, “Lets talk about this issue”.P.S. – I’m not knocking men here - just interested to know how other men behave, whether any forum users can relate to this and whether this behaviour is “typical” (like it says in the book).
Difficult for me to understand the question.
Problems should trigger a search for solutions, just as
knots need to be untied or
mathematical equations need to be balanced.
One just seeks the tools that would do the job.
A pointed and curved instrument or
Determinant, factor, discriminant, matrix inversion or whatever technique is most appropriate and elegant.
I assume you are talking about relationship problems.
I would have no hesitation about discussing it with a man or a woman, provided that IMO he/she was
competent,
experienced and
sympathetic.
And of course, provided that such consultation did not conflict with [url]the First Law.[/url]
Regards.
Prashna
Where is this cave? It must be full of some right moody b***ers!
I think it is generally true, though. Certainly, my wife can be amazed that I'll spend ages on the phone to male friends - talking mostly about football, probably - and at the end she'll ask "So, how is he? How's his wife?"
I don't know - how should I know?
On the other hand, men can certainly open up, given the right circumstances. When my wife was suffering from severe depression, her consultant got together a discussion group of sufferers' partners. We were all male, and I wondered if we'd all sit there silently, avoiding eye contact, but it was the complete opposite. Once we got going, he could hardly shut us up, and the meeting only finished when the caretaker insisted on us all leaving so he could go home.
I think, given the number of males in the U.K, that there must be quite a few caves !! 🙂
I have no idea how my OH was brought up (in terms of emotional stuff etc). I know that, in parts, his childhood was traumatic due to a civil war situation (between East/West Pakistan) and that he didn't go to school for 2 years due to moving around in and out of India. Also his family are very controlling and nearly all of the major decisions in his life have been made, not by him, but by other members of his family - even down to who he should marry, when to have children, what their names were to be, where to live, what job/studies to do etc. On the surface his family look close (as they work together, mostly live near each other) but i know for a fact that he doesn't trust any of them and wouldn't tell them a secret or ask for help from them.
Sometimes - out of the blue- he'll talk to me about what's on his mind. Mostly though if he doesn't want to talk about something he just doesn't answer me or says that he doesn't want to talk about an issue. I don't push it as i don't want to get him even more narked. Trouble is - if I don't know what the problem is then I don't know how to help or even if I'm PART of the problem.
Giles - I could try and say what you have said in the past ""I can see that there is something bothering you" and see where that gets me or just carry on riding out the rough time.
Supersub - I had to laugh about you thinking all the men would be sitting in a group silently and not looking at each other. I can imagine my OH doing that. :rolleyes:
Giles - I could try and say what you have said in the past ""I can see that there is something bothering you" and see where that gets me or just carry on riding out the rough time.
Don't get me wrong :rolleyes: I wouldn't say things like this to just anybody I saw who was looking bothered by something as generally people will go on the defensive by saying such things.
This technique is something I would mostly only use with clients who have specifically come to me to seek help, unconsciously they want to say what the issues are, but their consciousness is preventing it. By noticing the body language whilst talking to them and letting them know that you can see that there is more XXXXXXX than they are letting on (important to be specific as they respect the fact that you are 'intuitive' enough, are listening closely and are skilled at delving into their issues) they will suddently talk about those specific areas more and you get to the real meaning and issues behind it all.
I've had some people open up about things that they've never talked about, not even to their family/husband/wife/doctor etc. before and they find such a relief that they've been able to talk about it and we can actually do something about it to help them.
The other thing I notice (mainly male) clients do is to try and avert away from issues they aren't comfortable discussing, trying to laugh it off as though it's not a big issue, when you can clearly see from the body language it is. The important thing with treatment is to make sure we keep focused and only leave it alone if they really truly don't want to deal with it at this time.
Love and Reiki Hugs
The other thing I notice (mainly male) clients do is to try and avert away from issues they aren't comfortable discussing, trying to laugh it off as though it's not a big issue, when you can clearly see from the body language it is. The important thing with treatment is to make sure we keep focused and only leave it alone if they really truly don't want to deal with it at this time.
Thanks again Giles for your advice.
I'm leaving well alone at the moment after me getting really fed up of him this afternoon. Our relationship has been brilliant recently and he asked me to marry him over Christmas. However since this weekend - his behaviour has switched and seems to be in a vile mood. Due to my health probs, I've been told to try and stay calm and not to get stressed. Yet his behaviour does just that - it makes me so upset and angry. I know he has problems but so do many other people. I've bent over backwards helping him in the past (and present) but he doesn't even meet me half way. After work today I had Bowen technique treatment (for my neck and migraines and afterwards am meant to stay calm). After finishing my Bowen session, I drove across the city (in rush hour traffic) which took me 45 minutes to pick something up for him that he's ordered. Yet when i gave it to him - he couldn't be bothered to say "Thanks" or even talk to me.:mad:
Happy Girl, I have been reading this thread and I remember your thread over Christmas about the giving of pressies. Now please tell me to go and mind my own business, but I can't help feeling that you are walking on eggshells in your relationship with your guy. Moody men can be very difficult to deal with, my OH used to get moody in the past and he couldn't seem to deal with it, now he just gets on with life. I put this down to the fact that he changed from islam to buddhism purely because he calmed down so much more when he started meditating etc. Now, please don't read anything into that, I'm not for one minute suggesting such a big change. That is how my OH dealt with matters. I really feel you are giving so much to your relationship (which is very commendable) but what are you actually getting back in return?
As I said please tell me to bog off if I'm treading on dangerous ground, but I just felt I had to say my bit.:hug:
Love
As I said please tell me to bog off if I'm treading on dangerous ground
I wouldn't dream of telling you to "bog off" 🙂 as you always come up with good advice.
I hadn't really associated his moodiness with his beliefs but that could be so. I honestly don't know. I did think that perhaps us being from different cultures didn't help - that said there are plenty of moody Brits that I know of ;). Although he's currrently in a mood - what has actually caused it is anyone's guess - if it's actually me sending him innocuous texts then it's a pretty poor excuse as he is to blame for leaving his phone around and for allowing his children to read his stuff. He was actually great over Christmas and I did get a pressie (for the first time ever). As I mentioned before he gets a lot of hassle from the family - so that could be part of it - who knows ?? He did mention over the holidays that he was fed up with them. Trouble is he's having it out on me.
Going back to the book - it did say that men go into a cave when they have probs and that it's best to leave them alone until they decide to come out again. It's just interesting being given info here from men and partners of men giving their sides of the story.
Moody men can be very difficult to deal with, my OH used to get moody in the past and he couldn't seem to deal with it, now he just gets on with life. I put this down to the fact that he changed from islam to buddhism purely because he calmed down so much more when he started meditating etc. :hug:
Love
Hi Sue ... spotted ya in here on the way home from The Emirates!!
Moody men ... HELLO!!
I think it is great. I SO get moods ... isn't meditating a kinda of cave too or isnt the "cave" a form of meditation? I would speculate that there is a link between opening up to spiritual planes and mood swings.
Happy Girl ... I had a reply written the other day and then pressed the wrong button and it never got posted.
Chill out I say ... give him the space. Let him be.
Our ability to merge is determined by our ability to seperate.
He is energetically seperating from you ... the coldness ... and will return. As someone who could never deal with "not being all mills and boon all the time" I HAD to learn to individuate, to seperate. As a father of four kids whom I am seperate from the "strategy" of allowing his kids (even if covertly done) to "see" into your relationship may be his way of letting them in with you ... I dunno!
I expect my relationship to go "cold" from time to time ... and then it hets all warm ... hhmmmm - YUM!
I learnt this the HARD way ... it is natural for it to in and out. When that stops is when you have a problem!!
Be Happy elsewhere for a while. With that smiley avatar you can come over here and smile Cork happy in this rain!!
xoxo
Jim
We are very different I think.
My husband will talk at length and I mean at length about news items, cars, neighbours, illegal immigrants, gypsies, dumped rubbish, the govenment etc. etc.
In the 35 years I have known him I don't think he has ever said a word about his feelings. I can of course read his moods. He is generally always OK and occasionally if he is upset it will manifest itself as anger and he will get argumentative and then we have a row...not often but occasionally.
If I express feelings about things he doesn't really get it.
hi happygirl,
i dont normally get involved in these sort of discussions, but clearly you are looking for affirmation of some sort, by reading through the other threads you posted on also.
i think you and your partner have some serious issues that need resolving, sooner rather than later.
i was married to a moody man for far too long and looking back, i have no idea why i put up with it for as long as i did. young and foolish, scared maybe too, of an unknown future (when you are together for so long, a future without seems daunting!). lol their are way too many instances of ridiculous behaviour, that i endured because i thought i had to :eek:. (that aint gonna happen again!)
it was like he was "allowed" to have a bad day/s and be moody but woe betide me if i had a moody day - his would then become 10 fold! you get conditioned after a time to not get moody yourself (i never cared for them anyway, so that was fine :p).
i think sue's point is valid - your partner needs to "get over it" as it were - or maybe at least tell you his problem/s. he is being unfair in just being like it and expecting you to tolerate it. but then, he knew when he took up with you that he was going to have family difficulties that after 10 years he has not worked around? tsk tsk on him :(.
badger, i disagree a little with you, mate. why should happy girl leave him be, tread on eggshells and allow him his bad mood indulgence, if its having a detrimental affect on her and their relationship? the man's problem could well be unrelated to their relationship, but why not at least give her a clue as to whats up? communication (as you well know!) is key and the way forward... IMO of course!!
best wishes to you happygirl.
hi happygirl,
badger, i disagree a little with you, mate. why should happy girl leave him be, tread on eggshells and allow him his bad mood indulgence, if its having a detrimental affect on her and their relationship? the man's problem could well be unrelated to their relationship, but why not at least give her a clue as to whats up? communication (as you well know!) is key and the way forward... IMO of course!!
best wishes to you happygirl.
Exactly what I was going to say - I was going to reply in the same vein as Rosie but got caught up in some other work. But to reiterate, why should Happy girl have to put up with her guy's moods and leave him be. To me that is a very one-sided relationship. Moods are horrible things to deal with and be part of - you come home from work wondering if you're OH is happy and communicative or just giving the cold shoulder and you walk in the house not knowing what to expect - that is not an equal relationship and it shouldn't have to be like this. Moods often accompany immaturity, like not getting what you want so you go off in a big sulk. My OH was like this as I said but now he maintains life is too short to go "off in one". Hooray for his changed outlook.
Seriously HG in my humble opinion, you deserve better!
Love
Hi Rosie
I wasn't saying leave him be ... I am saying you shouldn't get involved. No point in picking an apple if it ain't ripe ... it is going to taste bitter.
Yes Sue is right a wake up call may be the light needed to ripen the fruit as her case seems to be ... but then it may not.
You say your piece and leave it to develop as it may ... it has to be unconditional ... otherwise you are still in the mind loop game.
xoxo
J!M
(what am I doing this far from the "footie thread"!! **smile** i might drown!!!!)
Thank you all for your replies and kind words - you've certainly given me food for thought. I just wanted to say that :
1. I used to work with soemone who was moody. Her moods changed throughout the day and it was literally ( as Rosie said) like walking on eggshells and it was sheer hell. I hated going in every day. My OH isn't like this. He gets these "moods" maybe every few months or so (which tend to co-incide at a bad times for me as well - usually when I'm busy, have other problems to sort out, am feeling unwell etc).
2. Other guys I've been out with in the past have been similar (ish) - which when I read the book made me think that it is perhaps a "male" thing.:rolleyes:
3. As you know I've had depression in the past (due to miscarriages etc) and he was there for me. I know other couples in this situation where the non-depressed partner has left the depressed one and have basically left them to fend for themselves - as it's very hard being with someone who is negative, down etc. I must have made his life hard with the crying and so on - yet he never complained and "in his own way" tried to help me. I don't have depression now but I guess that's besides the point. Whilst i had depression I had a boss who was compounding an intolearble problem by making my life hell - despite the fact that i always did a good job, was never off, was reliable - they sensed that I had a problem and went for the kill (so to speak). My OH stuck up for me at this point and it was the first time in my entire life that anyone had ever stuck up for me.
Although I'm not happy with his behaviour recently I was interested to hear if other men are similar ( I know all men aren't the same just as all women aren't the same) or have similar feelings ?? I will speak to him about this (when he's better) and perhaps we can move forward. I think men do need this space sometimes ( as Badger mentioned) but I don't want my OH to take anything out on me if it's not my fault.
Badger - I'd love to come to Cork and smile in the rain !!:D