Hong Kong - True De...
 
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Hong Kong - True Democracy In Action!

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amy green
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How inspiring that such a multitude are prepared to break the law to show their disapproval of the one man one vote fixed election should Executive C Y Leung get in again.

The imminent stand off whereby the protesters plan to occupy the government building is both a sign of their commitment and power. As one banner says "you can't kill us all".

Power to the people indeed! Wonderful!

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Tashanie
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I wish them well but they have changed the goal posts. I don't even know if the current chief executive is planning to stand in 2017....and that is what this protest was about. They want ANYONE to be able to stand not just candidates approved by Bejing. And I totally agree with that concept.

They may have good reason to want Leung to go now but they should stick to one goal

They seem to be taking Bejings lack of action as a sign of success -hence the widening of their goals. I don't believe it is. This clearly is democracy in action....but it may well have a very different result to the one they hope. How long with Hong Kongs businessmen be prepared to lose money? Bejing may feel that just like the protestors all they have to do is sit and wait.

I really hope I am proved wrong and that real strides are made towards proper democracy in Hong Kong as a result of this protest.

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amy green
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Yes I doubt that they will get all that they want but, it would seem, that some concession/compromise will now have to be forthcoming. Hong Kong's government cannot afford to be so blatantly embarassed and shown up in this way again I would have thought.

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Tashanie
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Well the Chief Executive is suggesting a meeting with the leaders. It will be interesting to see what comes out of that.

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Crowan
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How inspiring that such a multitude are prepared to break the law to show their disapproval of the one man one vote fixed election should Executive C Y Leung get in again.

The imminent stand off whereby the protesters plan to occupy the government building is both a sign of their commitment and power. As one banner says "you can't kill us all".

Power to the people indeed! Wonderful!

Break the law in what way? It is a very peaceful protest (from the protestors' side, anyway).
Actually, China could kill them all - it's not as if the rest of the world would do more than tut at them - then go back to trading with Beijing.

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amy green
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Protesting is illegal there.

Don't you think that China's reputation would suffer immeasurably if they were all killed? There's such a thing as sanctions. Such mass slaughter would evoke far more than just a tut.

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Crowan
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Protesting is illegal there.

Don't you think that China's reputation would suffer immeasurably if they were all killed? There's such a thing as sanctions. Such mass slaughter would evoke far more than just a tut.

Protesting is not illegal. Hong Kong has a long history of peaceful protest.
As for mass slaughter, have you forgotten Tianaman Square? Sanctions against China would cost the west more than they would cost China. You have only to look at recent history to see how little the western governments actually care about life, liberty or democracy. They all fade into insignificance before free market capitalism.

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amy green
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Crowan...obviously you do not know about this...

What about the power of sanctions?

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Crowan
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Crowan...obviously you do not know about this...

What about the power of sanctions?

Of course, Amy. No one knows as much as you do!
However, I could point out the inverted commas around the word "illegal" in the link you gave.
What makes you think that a government - our's, for example - would use sanctions against China?

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amy green
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Energylz
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I'm not sure protesting is actually illegal there?

It says on there:

The Communist Party leadership has dismissed the Hong Kong protests as illegal but has left Leung's government to find a solution.

but just because the communist party leadership has dismissed them as illegal doesn't make them so. One of the things with communism is they can make up the laws as they want to.

Finding anything about the laws of hong kong doesn't seem to easy on the web, the closest I could find (so far) was this...

but that seems mainly relating to foreign political parties and organisations or religious organisations acting against the government... not about the public.

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Energylz
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In addition... if protests are really Illegal there, they don't seem to do much to stop them...

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Crowan
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Protest is legal in Hong Kong.
This protest is largely because China is trying to do away with the 50 year "1 country, 2 systems" agreement.

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amy green
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Yes the portrayal of the protests in the media often comes with the tag "illegal protests". Shades of grey here. I take Crowan's point that it is a peaceful protest and all the more remarkable for that since it has gone on for over a week.

Nitpicking focuses on the minutiae at the expense of overlooking the main experience ....like quibbling about aspects of a rainbow. I would be interested in your opinions of this protest.

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Crowan
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Yes the portrayal of the protests in the media often comes with the tag "illegal protests". Shades of grey here. I take Crowan's point that it is a peaceful protest and all the more remarkable for that since it has gone on for over a week.

Nitpicking focuses on the minutiae at the expense of overlooking the main experience ....like quibbling about aspects of a rainbow. I would be interested in your opinions of this protest.

I really don't think it is nitpicking - China calls it illegal because China is scared of democracy and wants a legitimate reason to stop the protests. Hong Kong know it isn't illegal because - for 50 years from 1997 - they keep the freedoms they had under UK rule.
I don't even think it's that remarkable. Hong Kong has had peaceful demonstrations for decades. Remember that the Democratic movement in HK started as a protest against the UK.
As for my opinions, they are complex. I would love for HK to have full democracy (everywhere else, as well). I can't see it happening, however. On a very personal level, I just hope everyone remains safe. Not sure that that will happen, either.

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Energylz
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Yes the portrayal of the protests in the media often comes with the tag "illegal protests". Shades of grey here. I take Crowan's point that it is a peaceful protest and all the more remarkable for that since it has gone on for over a week.

Nitpicking focuses on the minutiae at the expense of overlooking the main experience ....like quibbling about aspects of a rainbow. I would be interested in your opinions of this protest.

I'm wondering which part you felt was nitpicking, as you started the thread with the words "How inspiring that such a multitude are prepared to break the law", when in fact there isn't really any evidence (still can't find any myself) that they are breaking the law.

Certainly it's inspiring that they are willing to stand up to their government in peaceful protest, but as for breaking the law....?

All Love and Reiki Hugs

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amy green
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Thanks for your comments...appreciated. The nitpicking was going into detail re. the illegality issue of protesting. As mentioned, I am going by how the media is portraying it i.e. as an "illegal" protest. This is how it will be seen to the public. Shades of grey though.. I personally do not care at all whether or not they break the law - the nature of the issue supercedes such stipulations.

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Energylz
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I guess that's one of the reasons I tend to take anything the media reports with a pinch of salt. Journalism relies on 'sensationalising' things, so if they can pick up small things of lesser significance in a story and blow them up to make them seem like a big issue, then they will. (one of my relatives works in journalism/media and discusses many of these things - she was even responsible for sensationalising (and producing) that awful 'reality' tv show a few years back on youngsters in spain, sleeping around and getting drunk and unruly etc. - shite show, but it got the ratings because of the hype that was put into it.)

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Crowan
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There are different media outlets, some more trustworthy than others. We still need some way of finding out what is happening in the world.

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Energylz
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The only way to really know what's going on in the world is to be there. 😉

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Crowan
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The only way to really know what's going on in the world is to be there. 😉

That allows you to close your mind to the suffering of others and to abdicate any responsibility for the world. We cannot isolate ourselves. Not knowing or caring about what happens will not stop it affecting us.
We can never know even what we are there to see - everything is filtered through our perceptions and our belief systems. And yet, every action has a reaction that ripples through the world.
Experience teaches us how much or how little we can trust a source - for me this equates to "Guardian, quite a bit. Daily Mail, not at all" (after all, just look at the attitude of their founders).
As for Hong Kong - I know the city and I know my family there.

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amy green
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Not knowing the true picture is not the same as not caring. We may not be presented with the real political depiction but can care about those affected.

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Crowan
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Not knowing the true picture is not the same as not caring. We may not be presented with the real political depiction but can care about those affected.

I did say it allows this to happen, not that it automatically follows. I know many who use it as an excuse not to engage.
I think sometimes that lumping all journalists together, like lumping all politicians or all doctors together, can be a way of simply not having to think.

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Crowan
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Worth reading:

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Crowan
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Just in case anyone thinks the protests in Hong Kong are over - .

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amy green
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Just in case anyone thinks the protests in Hong Kong are over - .

Brilliant! Pleased to see that. If nothing else they will achieve publicity in shaming their government and exposing it for what it is.

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